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Last Post 10/30/2007 9:58 AM by  starbelgrade
Ireland = land of begrudgers?
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PeterQuaife
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10/24/2007 4:29 AM
    Is Ireland a land of begrudgers?
    Do we all enjoy taking a pop?

    PQ
    starbelgrade
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    10/24/2007 6:58 AM
    Feic off.. yer only a bollix !
    PeterQuaife
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    10/24/2007 8:18 AM
    I knew it!
    Peejay
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    10/24/2007 8:20 AM
    I sometimes get a semi sliding down the bannister of life.
    aidan
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    10/24/2007 10:35 AM
    PQ, do you have any particular example in mind?

    I'm not sure we could generalise that the whole country instinctively wants to do down someone successful - and if people don't like a certain band/singer then surely they have the right to say it? Plenty other people will always argue the contrary and praise the band, as this discussion board always shows!!! Our less-than-glowing reviews always receive a healthy response, and there are also plenty of positive and supportive reviews and posts about Irish acts. For instance, in the last year I've written very positive pieces about Simple Kid, Duke Special (like other CLUAS writers), Nina Hynes, Jenny Lindfors, Leanne Harte, Sinead O'Connor and even Damien Rice! By contrasts, less positive things about The Immediate and a mildly critical piece about Neosupervital - but Jules and Binokular have written glowing pieces about Neosupervital. And there are plenty more by other writers - Damien Rice's '9' got a good review here.

    So, I reckon these things balance out and I'm not really convinced by the 'land of begrudgers' theory.
    PARTON
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    10/24/2007 2:45 PM
    i think you are right PQ, but i also think that its good we live in a country where people express their views...
    and are critical of artists/work that dont float their boat...some of it can be perceived as being bitter..but then for every perceived begrudger there is someone like yourself pointing out that the person is being a begrudger to begin with....all in all...w'ere an honest nation and i think its a good thing that in Ireland, a fan of an artist is prepared to voice critical opinion on work they dont see as being up to scratch as opposed to supporting regardless....... point in case for me would be Paddy Casey, I love his first album but everything since has been sh*te in my opinion....take that as you will



    starbelgrade
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    10/25/2007 1:59 AM
    I genuinely hate you all. Yr a bunch of bollixes.
    Protein biscuit
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    10/25/2007 3:42 AM
    Is it as a result of becoming so disaffected with life and being enveloped by the pseudo post-irony irony that pervades that we have, in fact, lost sight of the fact that life is about nothing much really in particular and that we've all got to get up off of our arses and grab it by the bollix rather than whinge about anyone else? As Rockerfeller once said (not that Rocker fella!!) "everytime a friend of mine becomes successful a little piece of me dies inside."

    I just don't know anymore. I just don't know.....
    Ally
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    10/25/2007 4:36 AM
    Posted By Protein biscuit on 25 Oct 2007 3:42 AM
    Is it as a result of becoming so disaffected with life and being enveloped by the pseudo post-irony irony that pervades that we have, in fact, lost sight of the fact that life is about nothing much really in particular and that we've all got to get up off of our arses and grab it by the bollix rather than whinge about anyone else? As Rockerfeller once said (not that Rocker fella!!) "everytime a friend of mine becomes successful a little piece of me dies inside."

    I just don't know anymore. I just don't know.....




    these are wise words... you have unlocked the "say" part, now you just have to tackle the "do"
    PeterQuaife
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    10/25/2007 5:51 AM
    that life is about nothing much really in particular and that we've all got to get up off of our arses and grab it by the bollix rather than whinge about anyone else?

    I just don't know anymore. I just don't know.....




    hairs on the back of neck are standing to attention. I was toying with this new project for next year, whether to do it or not...but now I am gonna grab it by the b*ll*x and do it.....AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    For what its worth, I do reckon Ireland is a country of begrudgers, not everyone, but a boisterous plenty. I currently reside in the North-West were ye better not go getting any ideas above your station or you'll be badly whipped by a fierce tongue-lashing!

    PQ
    Protein biscuit
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    10/26/2007 6:00 AM
    Posted By Ally on 25 Oct 2007 4:36 AM
    ]these are wise words... you have unlocked the "say" part, now you just have to tackle the "do"




    Nail on the head Ally but i'm a sayer not a doer and i never take my own advice but i'm great at giving it so that kind of makes me a begrudger in a roundabout kind of way. Hang on! My neural synapses are misfiring.....and there's smoke coming out of my nose. Jesus Christ! Oh....that's right. I just lit a cigarette. Phew!
    starbelgrade
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    10/30/2007 9:58 AM
    Here's a wee article I found on the web... an amusing enough comment on this topic I think!

    'Begrudgery is an attitude which has often been identified as "the Irish disease". In essence, it describes a prediliction to begrudge other people their success and wealth. Irish people are supposedly very keen to drag everybody down to their level, with phrases such as, "It's far from that he was reared", i.e. "He may be successful/wealthy/powerful now, but I knew him when he was just a guttersnipe/corner boy/snot-nosed pup". This attitude is summed up nicely by Bono:

    An American will look up at somebody living in a big house on a hill and say, "Someday, I'm going to be like him". An Irishman will look up at the big house and say, "Someday, I'm going to get that fecker!"

    It is certainly true that Irish people take cast a fairly jaundiced eye on wealth and fame. In fact, famous people find Ireland quite a pleasant place to live, as in general they can walk about the streets without being mobbed by fans: an Irish person would rather die than admit to recognising somebody famous in the street. It probably stems from being such a small country with a relatively flat class structure: it is hard for a successful Irish person to cultivate any sense of mystique, as you probably know someone who went to school with his or her mother.

    For many years, as Ireland languished in the doldrums socially and economically, we were continuously berated by the great and the good for allowing begrudgery to hold us back. As long as success was treated as something to be ashamed of, we were told, how could we expect Ireland to become successful? Instead of celebrating our captains of industry as capitalist-heros, these figures were subject to unfair scrutiny by the nation's media, and derisive comment by the general populace. This ingrained disdain for success, we were told, was preventing us from attaining success as a nation.

    In recent years, however, the begrudgers have been thoroughly vindicated. As it turns out, many of the people who did make a success of themselves during the 1970s and 1980s did so by inserting their hands into the nation's back pocket and snatching a wad of notes. As the tax burden for the ordinary PAYE worker became intolerable, those who could afford to pay taxes chose not to, instead diverting their money through complex and illegal networks of offshore bank accounts. In many cases, wealth was created through land sales and planning decisions facilitated by a rogues gallery of corrupt politicians. The "unfair media scrutiny" of which these figures complained was in fact not probing enough to reveal the extent of the corruption and tax evasion practised by a significant number of the nation's most wealthy people. These practises are only now being revealed, in a series of tribunals set up after the almost accidental discovery that certain high-level politicians were essentially "kept" men for certain wealthy businessmen.

    So, while Ireland attains a level of economic success previously only dreamed of, it is unlikely we will lose our tendency to remain suspicious as to the sources of wealth and success. While it didn't stop political and business life becoming thoroughly corrupt in the 1970s and 1980s, the fact that the Irish people retained a healthy sense of begrudgery throughout at least allows us to say, "I told you so".'
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