I'm not a fan of Humanzi, but I feel Jim Carroll is out of order here. It's not as if The Immediate are pressing up their records themselves and hawking them round to shops. They both have UK deals, and as someone said earlier, they use the same Irish PR. I don't get his point. The Immediate sold a thousand - big deal. It just seems like an O.T.T. attack on Humanzi dressed up as a case-study.

backlashes begin at conception, and that is that.

While I believe the Immediate have a lot more going for them than Humanzi they have only sold 1,000 copies themselves. Hardly world beating is it?

The Immediate have been touring around Ireland for what must be the last 5 years (at least) so to get a return of 1000 copies of an album sold is by no means a great achievement. Work it out....220 copies per year on the circuit!?! What this thread tells us is that the Irish CD buying public for Indie / alternative music is either very lazy or very hard to please or dare I say it more interested in bands who are 'hip' across the water or basically not from Ireland!

hello hello I'm in The Immediate and I just want to say that I think that article is completely negative and doesn't merit discussion. Also, just to answer, we certainly didn't use any tricks like getting our manager to buy any copies of the album, nor have we been touring Ireland for 5 years - this is our FIRST tour if Ireland! (not counting four or five dates supporting Delorentos a few months back). Here's to creativity and rocknroll... good luck to Humanzi! Good luck to anyone working hard at making music/art/love/whatever YEAH Cheerio -Conor

Well done Conor. I have a lot of respect for Humanzi AND The Immediate and they've been very vocal in their respect and admiration for my music. This is a journalistic faux-pas and clearly represents the huge divide between what is obviously going on in the Irish music scene and what's interperated as "Going on"..... Typical really..... T.

I think as a comment between two distinct apporaches to marketing/breaking a band, the idea behind the article had a lot of potential. It did however roll more than a little downhill with the concept being lost in, well, nothing of any real value at all.

well, there's plenty here for someone to write an op-ed then...

i think the points made in the article are fairly valid that no matter how much marketing image promotion etc a band gets if the music doesnt cut the mustard its not gonna do well... also having a dig at a bands looks well i think its fair game people do it when talking about boy bands girl bands and other vacuous shelves on which products are placed generally bands with alot of substance to their music can look the way they want and never get criticism for it... if he's of the opinion that thats the way they are then he should go for it.. afterall thats wat the article's about how substance deserves to trump style. the marketing and hype is the main reason why humanzi have recived a backlash... how can a band that says theyre sick of consumerism etc be comfortable with the barrage of marketing that surrounded them. no matter how well meaning they where so much marketing and posturing undermined anything they had to say.. i think its a fair point.. humanzi where marketed very much as these bunch of dangerous angry young polemics and the content never validated the promises made on the packaging. the people that leftist polemic music generally appeals to are normally quite put off by a barrage of marketing again it may not be humanzi's fault but if they felt there belifs in earnest what they where taking part in would of jarred with them a little. another consideration that needs to be taken into account when looking at the album sales is price... the immediates album is far cheaper than humanzi and for the many that where buying the album out of curiosity (like myself) it was a far easier purchase then spending nearly twenty bills on tremors. also the irsh brgrudgery thing its a load of bollocks irish musicians nearly always supported well in my opinion the immediate have made a far more honest effort at making music and it show... would they have liked the promotion budget humanzi had available to them... im sure they would but i know that both groups have been around working hard for bloody ages and its tough hopefully humanzi come back and make an album that fits them better good luck to them

I remember seeing Humanzi on 'Other Voices' and they were comically bad. There you go!

a couple of things here i've read the Carroll piece about three times now and can still see nothing in it bout how the band LOOK. Can someone please explain to me why people on this thread have picked up on this when its not in the piece? Or is this just people here looking for anything to beat the journalist with? what everyone seems to be ignoring is the main thrust of the piece - after all the hype and promotion and questionable support slots, humanzi have still not been able to sell loads in their homeland. The band have been heavily pushed in the UK too and it hasnt taken off there either. sure, the journalist should not have brought the immediate into it BUT the main theme of the piece - humanzi have only sold 500 copies of their debut album - is been conveniently ignored by many of their fan-posters on cluas Thomas Walsh - you may have meant well with your mails but you came across as extremely pompous. I'm sure you are not and that you are a lovely guy, but you really come across as a bit of a buffoon from your posts. You may want to edit your first post. The chip on your shoulder is really getting to you. And - finally - Dromed. I love this post from you on a thread about the release of "Tremors" from a few weeks ago http://www.cluas.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7369&whichpage=2 900 copies in the first day??? You really did swallow the hype from the band and their handlers, didnt u?

Sorry I deleted a post above by mistake - I still stand by whatever I've said before - yet I'm sure they would have still wanted to have sold more than that. There's a whole lot of venom going on here lads, I'm really glad to see that Conor from the Immediate posted - fair play. They've no gripe with Humanzi and I'm sure the Humanzi lads feel the same - I'm sure both bands can exist on their different paths without having to come to blows - Maybe CArroll is hoping to launch a Blur Vs. Oasis type war - ha ha! Next stop TOTP face off.