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Deletion of 'Una vs MCD' post
Last Post 25 Aug 2006 05:29 AM by admin. 40 Replies.
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25 Aug 2006 05:29 AM
    A courtesy note to y'all to let you know that the moderating team deleted the 'Una vs MCD' thread that was started a few days ago. Motivation to delete it is realated to its reproduction of copyrighted material (the full text of a copyrighted article from the Sunday Tribune was copy'n'pasted into the thread without permission being recieved from the copyright holder). I underline that no letters from verbose lawyers were received requesting we do this. I trust you can understand why this was done and that no one is too peeved!

    Cheers.

    eoghan
    PilchardUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 06:48 AM
    does this mean that ALL posts which cut and paste articles into the thread will be deleted? there are many threads of Cluas which do this and which dont get the permission of the author first. If the thread in question simply had a URL to the piece, would it still be up? i've never come across something like this before on cluas. excuse my scepticism, but you have to admit it sounds very suspicious in light of all that other online censorship involving those letters M, C and D.
    bonzoUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 07:46 AM
    Smelling a rat. Why not just delete the post with the article text??
    AntistarUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 08:16 AM
    Spot on, Pilchard. There are literally hundreds, possibly thousands, of posts on Cluas that have cut and paste articles from other sources. Suddenly, when an article relating to MCD's suppression of the fundamental human right of free speech is posted it is mysteriously deleted. I'm highly sceptical of Admin's explanation too.
    vandalaUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 09:13 AM
    First, libel actions for opinions on forums; next, copyright infringment for pasting text already in the public domain (The Sunday Tribune can be viewed online for free). The times they are a changin'.
    PilchardUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 09:25 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by vandala
    First, libel actions for opinions on forums; next, copyright infringment for pasting text already in the public domain (The Sunday Tribune can be viewed online for free). The times they are a changin'.
    what vandala said. the more i think about this, the more suspicious i'm getting. who exactly asked for the piece to be removed? Una? Her editor at the Tribune? Independent News & Media (who own the lion's share of the Sunday Tribune)? have they asked for ALL their content on Cluas to be removed? if so, has this been done? If not, why pick this particular piece? very curious state of affairs - it seems that everyone is running scared right now of M to the C to the D and their big bad legal eagles.
    eoghanUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 09:30 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by vandala
    First, libel actions for opinions on forums; next, copyright infringment for pasting text already in the public domain (The Sunday Tribune can be viewed online for free). The times they are a changin'.
    Just because something is available to the public does not mean that it is immune to copyright protection. To follow your logic, a band releases a record, therefore it is "in the pulbic domain", therefore it is not protected by copyright law. I don't think so. And while I'm at it: when I say there's nothing fishy about this, I mean it. There's no black helicopters hovering over us. Well not that I'm aware of. And yeah, you can also take me at my word as well, if you want you know. eoghan
    vandalaUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 10:07 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by eoghan
    quote:
    Originally posted by vandala
    First, libel actions for opinions on forums; next, copyright infringment for pasting text already in the public domain (The Sunday Tribune can be viewed online for free). The times they are a changin'.
    Just because something is available to the public does not mean that it is immune to copyright protection. To follow your logic, a band releases a record, therefore it is "in the pulbic domain", therefore it is not protected by copyright law. I don't think so. And while I'm at it: when I say there's nothing fishy about this, I mean it. There's no black helicopters hovering over us. Well not that I'm aware of. And yeah, you can also take me at my word as well, if you want you know. eoghan
    I'm aware of what public domain is. Nor was I making a moral judgement on the issue: I was merely pointing out that, up until now, most of us have turned a blind eye to the strict letter of the law...but it appears, that right now...the times are a changin'. Your decision to remove a post because of it being a "copyright infringement" has serious implications for how people use this and other forums. It's about setting a precedent for the kind of practice that is considered acceptable behaviour and what isn't. It's up to you, obviously, and I will stand by the rules, but as already stated, it seems a bit odd that you've chosen to take a copyright stand on the MCD, as opposed to any other, issue. I'm sure if I spent a while using the search forum, I could find several examples of verbatim "cut and paste" posting by moderators, etc.
    eoghanUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 10:19 AM
    In reply to vandala's comments about I point out that:
    • At no time have I said the posting of copyright protected material is banned from this forum.
    • At no time have I said that threads (past, present and future) into which copyrighted material is pasted will be deleted as a matter of course
    • At no time have announced to forum members a new 'rule' regarding posting of copyrighted material
    The approach of the moderating team will be, on a case-by-case basis, to take a pragmatic approach to any possible issues that arise and deal with them in a sensible way that takes into account the wider interest of the site and its users. And again, in case anyone missed it the first time around, no representatives of any legal org or gig promoting org were in touch, and the deleteion was undertaken with zero pressure. Fact. eoghan
    vandalaUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 10:26 AM
    ...And, no offence, but to test you a little further, the offending article can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/egy93 ...subscription is required but is free. Now, this begs the question, is posting the link an infringement? I think not. Note from Moderator: Link orignally above by Vandala was changed from a massively long one to a much shorter one, still gets you to the same page though)
    eoghanUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 10:29 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by vandala
    ...posting the link an infringement?
    Of course it's not. And I strongly encourage people to visit the web page referred to above and to familiarise themselves with its content and, sure while there at it, the content of the rest of the Tribune's website. eoghan
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    25 Aug 2006 10:33 AM
    Well, that's me satisfied.
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    Una

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    25 Aug 2006 10:55 AM
    For the record, I didn't ask for the post to be deleted for copyright reasons. I have no problem with people posting copies of articles or whatever. But I don't really want to get into this discussion at the moment. I will in due course if anyone cares I suppose.
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    25 Aug 2006 11:32 AM
    sorry to be a pain in the butt eoghan BUT you did not answer my questions. You answered vandala's questions thoroughly and i'd be happy to get the same service from our friendly admin Question repasted below for ease of access.... who exactly asked for the piece to be removed? Una (update - we know this is not the case per her post)? Her editor at the Tribune (Noirin Hegarty)? Independent News & Media (who own the lion's share of the Sunday Tribune)? have they asked for ALL their content on Cluas to be removed? if so, has this been done? If not, why pick this particular piece? as u said in the email to me yesterday "I've been politely asked (no scarcasm there) to do so (but not by MCD) and have agreed to do delete it. many thanks
    eoghanUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 11:51 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Pilchard
    who exactly asked for the piece to be removed? Una (update - we know this is not the case per her post)? Her editor at the Tribune (Noirin Hegarty)? Independent News & Media (who own the lion's share of the Sunday Tribune)?
    I have no idea who may (or may not) behind Una's straightforward request. Nor do I really care (being a slovenly, utterly complacent person completely incapable of outrage). And life is also too short.
    quote:
    have they asked for ALL their content on Cluas to be removed?
    I confirm that no other content has been requested to be changed or deleted that may have originally appeared in any irish newspaper.
    quote:
    If not, why pick this particular piece?
    That's soemthing i'm not going to worry about. Again, life is too short. eoghan
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    25 Aug 2006 12:07 PM
    Good afternoon to you all, Been reading the forums for quite a while but 'twas only with this topic that i felt inclined to register. "I have no idea who may (or may not) behind Una's straightforward request." Did Una request that the link be pulled, and, if not, why start with this topic. I echo previous opinions submitted that tjis is a tad fishy.
    UnaUser is Offline
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    Una

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    25 Aug 2006 12:22 PM
    I've clarified my position and request for the post to be removed in private with Eoghan. There is nothing fishy about it, nothing anyway that warrants further comment at this stage.
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    25 Aug 2006 02:38 PM
    Thats grand but why remove it Una?
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    25 Aug 2006 02:54 PM
    I have read this thread and find that there is a hysterical tone in some of the posts questioning the deletion. To summarise, Una asked for the thread to be deleted, the team reviewed the request and agreed to delete same. This board allows members to edit, ammend or delete their own posts as and when they like without question and it also allows moderators to do the same to both their own and other members posts. In using the board you agree de facto with this policy. It is not about censorship or anything else, your agreement is tacit with your use.
    PilchardUser is Offline
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    25 Aug 2006 02:55 PM
    er, sorry una, i really dont understand why u have asked for this to be removed? u already commented on the thread. are u now NOT standing over your excellent piece in last sunday's paper? a very strange state of affairs.
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