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Racism In Ireland
Last Post 02 Feb 2005 09:40 AM by Gar. 31 Replies.
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GarUser is Offline
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Gar

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02 Feb 2005 09:40 AM
    Ok, I don't want to start a big hate breeding assault here but just get a few opinions from whoever wants to contribute. I was watching the Arsenal vs Man Utd match (cracking game but not the result I was hoping for) and all the players were sporting new badges on their kits. It was the logo of 'Stand Up Speak Up', the new Anti Racism Campaign fronted by Nike. Anyway, a mate of mine text me after the match and noted that this was a very good idea and maybe more awareness should be in place. He said to me that racism exists in the Irish music scene, to which I was very sceptical of him saying. He said that Irish audiences are slow to warm to coloured/multi-cultured acts and that he was hard pushed to remember the last time he paid to see a coloured person. Personally, I don't think of say a band like Bloc Party as a white band with a black singer. It doesn't bother me. But he suggested that I ask if other music fans think that a form of racism exists in Ireland. I'm not sure about all this but thought I would throw it out there. And for anyone that is interested, that Nike campaign is being fronted over at www.standupspeakup.com
    vandalaUser is Offline
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    vandala

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    02 Feb 2005 09:48 AM
    Politically correct as it might sound, you'd want to watch yourself using the word "coloured". While it's obvious you mean no offence by it, there are plenty of people who would (rightly, in my opinion) see it as a pejorative term.
    GarUser is Offline
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    Gar

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    02 Feb 2005 10:01 AM
    Sorry I didn't mean anything by it but as I said it was what a mate of mine said. I posted this thread as I am unaware of any forms of racism in the music scene but maybe other people could've spotted something. Apologies if anyone took any offence.
    vandalaUser is Offline
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    vandala

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    02 Feb 2005 10:09 AM
    It's certainly no skin off my (Caucasian) nose. I do agree with you, however: the topic is definitely worth discussing further.
    mutchUser is Offline
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    mutch

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    02 Feb 2005 10:09 AM
    being a middle class white boy I'm in no position to fully understand racism, and I dont make a habit of getting offended on anyones behalf, but its a bloody interesting point Gar. Why do we not see any of the foreigners that we see everyday working around the country playing the local ciruit? Or am I just ignorant? When you think about, traditionally music is the thing that can bring different communities together, isnt it? How about a musical equivilant of Nike idea?
    karlvinUser is Offline
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    karlvin

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    02 Feb 2005 10:24 AM
    Very interesting point , here's a link to one thing that's going on , http://www.ontheverge.ie/news.htm see the news down the bottom about the anti racism stuff, they interesting part is getting as many people from different cultural backgrounds to play.
    MullyUser is Offline
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    Mully

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    02 Feb 2005 10:28 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Gar
    he was hard pushed to remember the last time he paid to see a coloured person.
    Me neither, top of my head Sepultura in TBMC last year, & Ice Cube at Sunstroke dack in the day. But I'm not going to see a black person, I'm going to see a good band/act/whatever. I think it the musical circles we move in & the sounds we are brough up with. Generally (Getting my tarring brush out) Black people are drawn to RnB & Urban music, on the otherhand you have whiteboy Rock & Folk. I dont like RnB, so I dont go see it, or its performers. Only other black person I can think of fronting a UK band was Skin from Skunk Anansie. Take away the boybands s**te, & you have few white people singing RnB.
    UnicronUser is Offline
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    Ian Wright

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    02 Feb 2005 11:24 AM
    A band from Galway called Lucas have recently recruited a new guitarist from Jamaica, other than that I've yet to see a black person in any Irish band.
    DromedUser is Offline
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    Dromed

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    02 Feb 2005 11:28 AM
    Interesting topic Gar...fair play for bringing it up! I do think that there is a frightening increase in racism simmering away in Ireland at the moment, the reasons for which are far reaching and complex. As a nation that begged on the doorsteps of so many other countries in our time of need, we know first hand the experience of famine and poverty and what it feels like to be the outcasts of society. It sickens me to see us doing to immigrants what has been done to us in the past. However, I do not think racism is prevalent in the music scene in Ireland. I think that 'World' music, which by nature is made up of diverse ethnicity, is starting to become far more popular now than it was before. In the last year Youssou N'Dour, Nitin Sawhney, Toots and the Maytals, Roots Manuva, Horace Andy & Mad Professor, DAARA J & Lil Chi, Jo Tta Kun + Oroz , Ozomatli, Antiablas Afrobeat Orchestra, Femi Kuti & The Positive Force, Clotaire K and loads more have all played here. These acts aren’t all ‘world’ music by any means, ranging from French hip hop to Sengalise percussive to Asian fusion electro beats. Crawdaddy in particular are flying the flag of multi-cultural music booking acts from all over, and selling out their venue to boot most of the time! I think Irish people have always had a respect and love of black music – particularly reggae and soul. Gospel music has made a huge come back in the past couple of years with various choirs and groups setting up in Ireland too. I do think, however, indie/rock music (and certainly not just in Ireland) is predominately white and westernised. I’m not sure why to be honest. It’s interesting though because the foundations of rock’n’roll were built on rhythm and blues and soul music to begin with…...has it lost touch with it’s roots?
    OptimusUser is Offline
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    Optimus

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    02 Feb 2005 11:34 AM
    I think it's fair to say that up until the last few years, Ireland has been a predominantley white culture. And when you're used to that, matters of force of habit and such are embedded into your personality. So I think it's fair to say that it's not racist...it's just that you automatically stick to the familiar, subconcously. Me? I dont give a s**t about colour, race, whatever. We're all the same and we all still get morons from different countries and cultures all over there world. We're not different than the jamaicans, except that they're far more chilled out than we are. However I've been looking for a black singer for a long time. Purely because of the sheer power of the voice those guys have. And I'm not being racist. They just have stronger voices than us whities.
    UnicronUser is Offline
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    Ian Wright

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    02 Feb 2005 11:40 AM
    A quick tale of racism becasue it occured today. I dropped off a friend at his flat last night around 12:30 and went in for a quick game of PES4 (turned into 5 but whatever), I parked in one of the spaces outside his flat reasoning that even thought I didn't have a permit it was 12:30, who is going to mind and I'm visiting a resident. It gets to 1:45 and I leave to find that some motherf**ker has clamped me (I know I was technically in the wrong but still, clampers are by default motherf**kers), I'm not paying €135 to get it free so I crash at the freinds place before waking up at 7 to pay €90 to get my car back. I arrived in work at 9 to find that as it's Wednesday the bin men are there to pick up our cardboard and paper for recycling, I was the first in but I don't have a key so I waited outside chatting to the bin guys and ended up recounting my expensive tale of woe, the guy turns to me and says "it was them blacks, they're always out at night."
    EoinUser is Offline
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    Eoin

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    02 Feb 2005 11:45 AM
    isnt that lead singer/guitarist from Relish black ??? anyway, I generally do not like RnB music which is mostly performed by black musicians, its a taste thing not a colour thing. However I adore Reggae music in all its forms which is also mostly performed by black musicians. To be honest when I go and see an indie band (ie. 5 white guys) or a reggae act the only thought on my mind is the music and the music only, colour is not an issue, for any genuine music fan I would imagine it is the same. I have to say that I have a problem with people who seem to bandy the word racist around like confetti, it really takes away the effect of such a tag when it is applied to someone who indeed a racist.
    UnicronUser is Offline
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    Ian Wright

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    02 Feb 2005 11:45 AM
    As much as I hate to admit it I think that many of the Irish are inherently racist, just look to the North, and even 30 years ago the protestants down here were "black" before we had any blacks.
    EoinUser is Offline
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    Eoin

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    02 Feb 2005 11:51 AM
    true, just the same for Catholics in the 6 counties though eh !
    MullyUser is Offline
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    Mully

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    02 Feb 2005 12:21 PM
    I remember seeing Dylan Moran few yrs ago. He was talking about Immigration. The Irish, he said, Have always been racist, since time immemorial .... but it was only now that we got a chance to use it. Made me smile.
    Rev JulesUser is Offline
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    Rev Jules

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    02 Feb 2005 12:33 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Dromed
    the foundations of rock’n’roll were built on rhythm and blues and soul music to begin with...
    'Rock and Roll music is basically Rhythm & Blues and Gospel' Elvis Presley, in conversation, 1968.
    kierryUser is Offline
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    kierry

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    02 Feb 2005 02:01 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Optimus
    However I've been looking for a black singer for a long time. Purely because of the sheer power of the voice those guys have. And I'm not being racist. They just have stronger voices than us whities.
    yes. "they" do. don't they. they're great dancers too i hear.
    klootfanUser is Offline
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    klootfan

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    02 Feb 2005 02:32 PM
    quote:
    yes. "they" do. don't they. they're great dancers too i hear.
    These days its like a minefield when it comes to using language to refer to certain groups/categorys of people/races. It seems to me that we should all be carrying around some sort of dictionary of "approved" words which is periodically updated once a week as previously "ok" terms become "offensive" and replaced with newer "non offensive" terminology. In the quote from above, he was not purposely trying to offend anyone, and yet in some case people would jump on this as a classic case of racism. Is it not more important that we deal with the most severe cases of racism first, where people are being attacked and spat at on the streets or being prevented from getting an education or a decent job. Yes there is terminology that people use that is openly racist and that cannot be condoned, but analysing peoples comments for words which are unintentionally potentionally racist is just stupid in my opinion. Sorry..getting away from the music there.. Im sure we could all spend pages discussing racism
    OptimusUser is Offline
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    Optimus

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    02 Feb 2005 02:34 PM
    'Rock and Roll music is basically Rhythm & Blues and Gospel' Elvis Presley, in conversation, 1968. That old chestnut, eh?
    kierryUser is Offline
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    kierry

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    02 Feb 2005 02:54 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by klootfan
    These days its like a minefield when it comes to using language to refer to certain groups/categorys of people/races. It seems to me that we should all be carrying around some sort of dictionary of "approved" words which is periodically updated once a week as previously "ok" terms become "offensive" and replaced with newer "non offensive" terminology. In the quote from above, he was not purposely trying to offend anyone, and yet in some case people would jump on this as a classic case of racism. Is it not more important that we deal with the most severe cases of racism first, where people are being attacked and spat at on the streets or being prevented from getting an education or a decent job. Yes there is terminology that people use that is openly racist and that cannot be condoned, but analysing peoples comments for words which are unintentionally potentionally racist is just stupid in my opinion. Sorry..getting away from the music there.. Im sure we could all spend pages discussing racism
    this is all true. but using the words 'they' and 'them' is a segrigationalist mindset, and this i find is the source of the problem. Us and Them. different. most folk are good, honest people who would never dreaming of saying anything racist to anyone and would be shocked at the thought. but its generalisations and segregations like this that are more subliminal and deep-rooted, and i dislike these as much as the more obvious kind.
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