Dublin Music Scene is Dead? - CLUAS Irish Indie Music

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Last Post 3/15/2004 12:59 PM by Johnson

Dublin Music Scene is Dead?

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Johnson

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Posts:21

3/15/2004 12:59 PM
Right i'm just gonna throw this one out there. Would anyone else agree with the contention that the Dublin music scene is dead. Now let me clarify exactly what i mean here before i'm stoned to death. Although i'm not denying that there is multitude of bands out there, many great, many not so great I believe that the opportunity for bands to get signed and actually progress their music in Dublin just isn't there anymore. Maybe it's the shortage of decent venues in Dublin or the fact that record companies seem to be tightening their belts but I feel that if a band really wants to forge a career in music they have to go abroad. Now I know there may be one or two exceptions but, generally speaking the lack of any real opportunities for bands in this city is an unfortunate reality.

vandala

Basic Member
Posts:267

3/15/2004 4:48 PM
People have been saying that since the 1970s. That's not to suggest it isn't true; it's just a rather circular arguement that has more to do with the size of the country than it has to do with making a career out of music.

Binokular

Veteran Member
Posts:1665

3/15/2004 5:23 PM
I don't live in Dublin but I can't offer any direct observations. However there are certain things that I feel can be applied to the Irish music scene or any music scene in general. First to borrow a line from the movie 24 hour party people "music is a double helix, while one scene is the descendant another is in the ascendant", basically what that means (I think) is that no scene can maintain a constant level of creative energy. Eventually it dies down, regardless of how much is done to nurture the local scene and another music scene takes its place. Maybe that rising scene is in the same city, but more than likely it will be somewhere else entirely. (I reckon Canada is about to have its time in the sun of indie credibility.) However if you follow the double helix analogy to its logical conclusion (Oi! wake up, I'm not finished yet! ) the scene that was once in the descendant will rise again. Music like fashion is cyclical. Now to get more specific about what I think is wrong with the Irish music scene. This is just a personal theory I have and I would love to hear anyone who has a contradictory argument. Anyway my theory is that Irish bands/artists have lowered their ambitions creatively. They only seem to be measuring themselves against other Irish bands. This is not to see that these bands are bad, its just that when you compare them to what else is out there globally many of them don't seem to have that edge over other non-Irish bands. As for record companies tightening their belts, yeah probably true, but why wait for some A&R man to come knocking at your door. What happened to punks' DIY ethos?

QsySue

Basic Member
Posts:119

3/15/2004 6:11 PM
I know some amazing bands that because they don't tour are nowhere near to getting the recognition they deserve. The internet makes it possible for them to have bigger followings than they would otherwise, but I think it's important for bands to tour. I know a band from Sweden that I think could be HUGE if they could only tour the states, and another from Eugene, OR that would be much bigger in their scene if they'd tour, same goes for a local band from Tacoma. I'm just glad I've got the internet to discover music I normally wouldn't ever hear of.

UniT seVEn

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Posts:7

3/15/2004 7:43 PM
i don't think it's so much the size of the dublin music community, it's just that too many people are dying in dublin and so the great music doesn't get past the bedrooms and small venues. the morgues and cemetries are full of dead people, a lot of them who have died in the last couple of years, days and weeks. consequently, the market for music is too fickle and people don't get a chance to buy stuff, mostly due to the fact that, for many, death is just around the corner. the replacement of people by other new people, many just born or toddlers can often be too long a process, and many musicians just give up. all i can reasonably suggest is some way of reanimating dead people, to improve and increase the market for dublin music. this, of course, carries the danger of zombie-ism, and consequently is not too popular either in the music industry or in the indie community. well, we'll hope for the best anyway, i suppose.

Binokular

Veteran Member
Posts:1665

3/16/2004 10:16 AM
Hahaha, woo!... Brilliant stuff unit seven. You know there used to be a band in the 60s called The Zombies, but that was such a cop out because the weren't actually undead but in fact were alive and rather healthy. Personally I'm all for undead muscians, look at Keith Richards! However it should not be assumed that reanimating dead people is the major cause of zombieism, there is evidence that this state of mindlessness exists in many living people. A zombie is physically identical to a normal human being, but completely lacks conscious experience, which could quite easily describe Damien Rices' fanbase! hehe (I was gonna say Westlife but thats just too easy a target)

Vent My Spleen

Advanced Member
Posts:500

3/16/2004 1:02 PM
I'm not one for statistics, but 32.305% of zxombies have taste, blowiny your Damien RIce theory out of the water, Binokular.

Binokular

Veteran Member
Posts:1665

3/16/2004 2:12 PM
Ah yes, however taste implies concious thought. I believe some zombies are in fact making good record purchasing decision, purely on an automatic level, influenced by external stimulus such as the NME or Hotpress actually featuring a good band on the cover. To prove my theory, heres 0.305% of a zombie now (he used to be a whole one until he encountered a frag grenade). Lets ask him. Binokular:"So what do you think of this weeks NME" Zombie: "BRAINS, BRAAAINNSSSS, RRAAAGGHH" Binokular: "eeek!" Luckily I distracted him with this website: http://www.brains4zombies.com/

flagman

Basic Member
Posts:150

3/16/2004 3:11 PM
Are you sure that the zombie wasn't referring to The Jimmy Cake record?

mick

Basic Member
Posts:411

3/16/2004 5:04 PM
havent read the above apologies... i just think what the scene in dublin is missin is one really good venue that always has a crowd in it. for example folk know this place is good and has good bands every night or whatever so go there no matter who is on knowing they'll have a good night. i think thats the set up in new york etc

MaryJane

New Member
Posts:17

3/18/2004 1:52 PM
I think Dublin is too small and there is no big music scene. What ye see are groups of bands trying to do something and its falling on deaf ears. If a band wants to make it out of Dublin they have to really want to and have their s**t together. Dublin is only one city, UK bands tour the Uk where there is more cities and more interest. There is some great bands around but you can only play the same few venues so many times to the same people. Maybe bands need to start getting together and organising gigs of Dublin bands in the UK, make people notice Dublin.

dudley

Basic Member
Posts:124

3/18/2004 3:50 PM
dublin is grand and doing fine but getting out of the city does rock. The Corpo are taking Large Mound over for a short Scottish tour in May, and then we're adding the Tychos to that bill and doing a small UK one at the end of June. Japan in september, woo!

JimmyTT

New Member
Posts:1

3/22/2004 11:20 AM
My problem with the Irish music scene is not with the bands, the venue's or even the general public but with the fking media, pumping a load of ste into people's brains from every direction. If i turn on the radio all I here is the usual crap that I've heard for the last two or three years like, so I don't listen to the radio anymore. And then you have Hotpress, don't get me started on them, basically utter bollix's who don't give local talent a chance. So basically people only listen to or read what the media want and any real talent in Ireland is f**ked.

El Duderino

Basic Member
Posts:179

3/22/2004 11:58 AM
The standard of live acts in Dublin at the moment is much better than anything we've had for years. A trip to any open mic night held during the week in the city center turns up a wealth of talent that we should be proud of. On top of that we've got some of the best bands ever to come out of Ireland doing the rounds now. The Duldey Corporation in particular but we aslo got F.K.O.S, Republic of Loose, 10SR, the Frames, the list goes on.... The music scene is far from dead, however the music Industry has never been alive in this country. Just look at most of our exports. The country is too small to have any propoer music industry and anything that is there is dominated by the likes of Louis "f**king" Walsh. But who needs an industry when we got raw talent? that's my 2 cents anyway

Binokular

Veteran Member
Posts:1665

3/22/2004 1:42 PM
quote: Originally posted by El Duderino On top of that we've got some of the best bands ever to come out of Ireland doing the rounds now. The Duldey Corporation in particular but we aslo got F.K.O.S, Republic of Loose, 10SR, the Frames, the list goes on.... I'm not one for nostalgia but I reckon Dublin has produced some incredible bands in the past that blow any of the bands in the list above completely out of the water. How about Rollerskate Skinny for starters, an incredible band who really were up there with My Bloody Valentine in terms of great bands of the era (no coincidence since Jimmy Shields was related to Kevin Shields). Don't get me wrong, the bands you've listed above are pretty good, but on a global scale, they really don't set themselves apart from the pack. Theres nothing about them that really excites me and makes want to rush out and buy their records. So yeah, Dublin does have some pretty good bands knocking around at the moment which means that it would appear that it has a lively music scene, but not neccesarily a creatively fertile one.

El Duderino

Basic Member
Posts:179

3/22/2004 2:18 PM
It's all a matter of taste but I reckon "In love with the Duley Corporation", the F.K.O.S album and the Republic of Loose EP more than hold their own when compared to any contemorary releases from any country. Creatively speaking I can't think of any Irish bands that even come close to their level, past or present, and I've heard most of them.

mick

Basic Member
Posts:411

3/22/2004 4:37 PM
on irish releases, my faves at the moment are waiting room's 'catering for headphones' and the coldspoon conspiracy's 'plays well with others' i too think that these records are on a par with international releases

Alan Pinionsson

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Posts:4

3/27/2004 8:03 PM
WTF? the Dublin scene isn't dead, just lazy. Most bands do zero gigs outside Dublin, and even then the Dublin gigs are to their mates, and very badly publicised. If a band wants to do better they WILL leave Ireland, and I'm sure somebody will pipe up with "but band X are now on large label Y made it" that's one. We, Pinion, have played with 200 SEPARATE Dublin Bands in the last 3 years, (some great, most awful) and few are pushing as hard right now as ourselves (look out for an independent as in NO label, not an "indie" label, single release April 9th) and an Irish tour to promote/pay for it. Then when we have that under our belt we are off to the UK and then the US to tour some more. Other REALLY hard-working bands at the minute are: Mike got Spiked, Morello, and Ginseng. MGS are releasing in July I believe and the other 2 have recently had singles get to no.20 and no.24 respectively in the Irish chart, no mean feat considering the amount of work it takes to do it yourself. The scene isn't dead, but you do have to lead it by the hand to make it work. Above all, go to the shows, plenty of bands are playing, not enough people are listening. What are your plans for April? how about supporting unsigned talent? (List of gig dates deleted by Monderator as they are already published on the 'Gigs announcement' discussion board)

Enricho

New Member
Posts:5

4/2/2004 12:57 AM
The problem is that most bands lack direction through no fault of their own. Any band can record an album and put out independently, But not very many people will buy it which can often lead to a band making a loss. The sad fact is that to get heard you need to be signed to a major label (usually british) and the chances of that are fairly remote. There is no "industry" in this country. Rte gives us music shows like the lyrics board and your a star and gets rid of no disco. Radio stations like phantom get taken of the air. Getting gigs is difficult, getting decent money for them is near impossible. We have 2 music magazines, Hotpress which seems to be an outlet for the multi-talantless Niall Stokes to get political, try to be cool and sell out at the same time and foggy notions which is good but doesn't come out often enough.

Roger the Dodger

New Member
Posts:1

4/10/2004 7:21 PM
Some very interesting points on this thread - especially about the media. It is interesting that no-one has mentioned Cluas as a media outlet supportive to Irish music (or maybe this is taken for granted?). Indeed, what is the general state of Irish online media regarding Irish rock? Thumped is just full of Jimmy Cakes talking about their beards and individual band forums are just full of groupies. Does Foggy Notions have an online presence? Whatever happened to Muse? Does anyone know anyone who has paid to use hotpress.com? The thing is the Dublin rock scene (which is where this started) is in a strange state right now, You have a host of acts who are selling loads and loads of records (you know the list) but, with the exception of Damien Rice, none are doing the business away from here. This has ALWAYS been the death-knell for Irish rock - we support our acts to the death here (why else are the like sof JErry Fish. Hothouse Flowers, 4 of Us and the other s**te acts from the 80s still around) but those abroad rarely respond with similar enthusiasm. There are also loads and loads of acts from every country in Europe who are huge at home but unknown abroad. Sometimes, this suits them just fine - why bother with all that touring abroad when you can sell 50-100k copies of your album in your home state and live happily off that? Maybe it's time for the Irish music community to admit defeat, admit they can't sell abroad and make do with the home market. Certainly, the government are doing nothing to help Irish rock acts break abroad - unless they have the seal of approval from Louis Walsh. I'm sure if Louis was to help, say, some no-hoper Irish bands like the Dudley Corporation or Joan or Arse, things might be different

dudley

Basic Member
Posts:124

4/11/2004 8:09 PM
very few members of the jimmy cake use thumped. a lot of people from bands in dublin find it a pretty invaluable resource, whether for publiscing gigs, finding band members or getting technical advice from the recording boards, or record pressing advice from the things boards. it's also an exceptionally busy forum and the amount of traffic it generates causes no small amount of headaches, both technically and financially. i would like to see a foggy notions website though. joan of arse, much to the citys loss, broke up some time ago. go see their new incarnation, the law court of christ, in whelans this tuesday. the dudley corporation sell far more records in europe than in ireland, and by the end of this year we will have toured the UK, Europe and Japan, with our current album available in all those territories and the US. all without the government or mr walshs help. suits me, sir. however, i do spend an inordinate amount of time discussing my beard. it's f**king great.

beast

New Member
Posts:5

4/11/2004 8:39 PM
I have been all through Ireland listening to rock. Dublin's music scene isn't dead but it is very tired. Those in Dublin usually agree. Where I have found a wealth of music though is Cork. Cork's scene blow up in the past year producing such an overwelming offering of great bands who almost shun any attention. Cork seems to be a place where the music industry has passed it over in attention so many times, it's made one for itself, With Bands like Rulers of the Planet, Rest, the waiting room, The Shambuenos, Trade, the shades, the new messiahs, and exit the street, Cork didn't create a sound like seattle brought Grunge, Cork has been generating bands pushing the borders of their respective genre borders. It's almost as if Cork is lobbying for he worlds attention with the introduction of 2005 Cultural capital of Europe. If you haven't been to Cork for the music... you need to make the trek.

al ert

New Member
Posts:6

4/13/2004 3:29 AM
dublin gone. everybody dead.

Ciarán Ryan

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Posts:47

4/14/2004 11:32 AM
PERHAPS and only perhaps, scenes are seen as dead exactly because they are scenes. Scenes are seen for the most part by the general public as cliques. Operating outside the clique can often be met with disdain from those within, or something... anyway, in terms of dublin, i think it is doing just fine with the bands that are emerging. There seems to be numerous venues etc. However, my bone of contention is that the focus is constantly on Dublin, and nobody seems to be looking at the work done in places like Limerick, Galway and Cork and the bands appearing from these cities. Collectives have been set up in Limerick, Galway etc that have proven that diy ethics can still prevail and that bands can release records independently etc. Its not all about the money man blah blah

Ciarán Ryan

New Member
Posts:47

4/14/2004 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Roger the Dodger Some very interesting points on this thread - especially about the media. It is interesting that no-one has mentioned Cluas as a media outlet supportive to Irish music (or maybe this is taken for granted?). Indeed, what is the general state of Irish online media regarding Irish rock? Thumped is just full of Jimmy Cakes talking about their beards and individual band forums are just full of groupies. Does Foggy Notions have an online presence? Whatever happened to Muse? Does anyone know anyone who has paid to use hotpress.com? sorry, me again. in relation to media in ireland, there is little for emerging bands, bands with previously minimal exposure. However the likes of Student Radio and Fanzines (very useful as they tend to be read by those with a genuine interest etc)should be explored by bands kicking off. laterr

Punchbowl

Basic Member
Posts:205

4/16/2004 12:04 PM
Dublin is dead is nearly every respect. In the Late Eighties / Early Ninties there was a thriving scene based mainly of the availibility of venues ( McGonagles , SFX, Mat Hatter ) and the fact that international acts did not include Ireland on their touring itinery because of cost and indeed terrorism fears. Bands like A House emerged from all this as genuine contenders ( And would of regardless ) but then suffered as all of a sudden Ireland became a European. Cafes opened, people got younger and most imp. Money started rolling in. It was also at this time that the young people began to resent Irishness ( As it had treated them so badly up to this point ) and responded by welcoming in the Brit Pop brigade with Gusto. Irish bands where dismissed at once. The frank and walters would be demeaned into being ' Quirky ', but of little importance, despite releasing some of the finest Irish Indie rock ever. The record labels that had set up camp in Ireland after U2 went global soon also began to leave, destroying many an Irish band in it's wake. Sure, some bands did emerge. The franks did go top ten in England, so did the Sultans and Indeed A House also charted over there a number of times. But what about the other bands who in the early ninties where as familiar with Dublin audiences as Travis or Coldplay ? The likes of Engine Alley , Blink , Into Paradise , The power of Dreams?? People just tuned off. Radio is partially to blame, the collapse of decent Pirate affected a lot, but honestly, if you need reasons why a scene has not existed in Dublin since then you will need to ask yourself. It's your fault

Vent My Spleen

Advanced Member
Posts:500

4/16/2004 12:55 PM
Interesting points Punch, one and all. I wouldn't strictly agree on venue availability being a factor though. I wouldn't be too nostalgic about McGonagles or the SFX, they were stholes. However, what was important at that time was the huge amount of pubs willing to let a couple of bands set up in a corner whether they were ste or not. Anyone who was around in the late 80's/early 90's probably spent many a night in The Underground of The White Horse checking out bands of wildly varying quality. And all it cost you was your few beers. It is true that very few bands came here until the 90's which did help the scene here. Although I really trace the the decline of the Dublin scene to the regulation of the airwaves. Before that, you couldn't turn the dial without hitting a community station playing very ecletic stuff. I had my first sniff of bands like REM, Dead Milkmen, Pixies, Sugar through these stations, bands you never would have heard otherwise. Equally, local acts could get their material played. Even back in those days, the big ststions tried to compete (you mightn't believe this but Gerry Ryan used to have the 10-12 slot on 2FM and the music wasn't half bad!) Of course, this all changed in the nineties. It's ironic that both 2FM and Today FM are trying to reclaim this listenership, 15-20 years after it was killed off. As for the bands and record companies, they were all over here looking for the next U2. None of the acts were marketed in England and dropped like hot cakes when the didn't sell millions. For the record, I was particularly fond of A house & Engine Alley but the ones I really thought were going to make it were Blink.

Punchbowl

Basic Member
Posts:205

4/16/2004 3:13 PM
quote: Originally posted by Vent My Spleen Interesting points Punch, one and all. I wouldn't strictly agree on venue availability being a factor though. I wouldn't be too nostalgic about McGonagles or the SFX, they were stholes. However, what was important at that time was the huge amount of pubs willing to let a couple of bands set up in a corner whether they were ste or not. Anyone who was around in the late 80's/early 90's probably spent many a night in The Underground of The White Horse checking out bands of wildly varying quality. And all it cost you was your few beers. It is true that very few bands came here until the 90's which did help the scene here. Although I really trace the the decline of the Dublin scene to the regulation of the airwaves. Before that, you couldn't turn the dial without hitting a community station playing very ecletic stuff. I had my first sniff of bands like REM, Dead Milkmen, Pixies, Sugar through these stations, bands you never would have heard otherwise. Equally, local acts could get their material played. Even back in those days, the big ststions tried to compete (you mightn't believe this but Gerry Ryan used to have the 10-12 slot on 2FM and the music wasn't half bad!) Of course, this all changed in the nineties. It's ironic that both 2FM and Today FM are trying to reclaim this listenership, 15-20 years after it was killed off. As for the bands and record companies, they were all over here looking for the next U2. None of the acts were marketed in England and dropped like hot cakes when the didn't sell millions. For the record, I was particularly fond of A house & Engine Alley but the ones I really thought were going to make it were Blink.

Vent My Spleen

Advanced Member
Posts:500

4/16/2004 3:20 PM
Yessiree, totally agree with you there PunchBowl (or perhaps you lost your edits? You gotta love technology)

Punchbowl

Basic Member
Posts:205

4/16/2004 3:28 PM
Spot on, Venting of Spleen. My point though about McGonagles et all wasn't so much about their level of luxury but more their level of popularity. It WAS a scene when most of your mates would be heading up Grafton st for a gig. I'm sure this great ' Cleansing ' of the Music scene got rid of many bands that shouldn't of been there in the first place but I'm still bitter about some of the results. A House, if they where releasing 'I am the Greatest' now, would propably become superstars overnight. Blink's last album was commercially ignored but should of done the business. Anyway, what we have now is the emergence of a number of new bands who are developing quite well, without being part of a particular scene. The likes of the Frames , Bell X1 , Paddy Casey have been running around scratching each others backs for ages now and in some cases getting caught up in coat-tails and it's finally paying off. But It's just with the emergence of the Village ( Not may Fave venue ) and Vicar st ( A little too posh for rock and roll ) as the main port of call for these guys that I'm beginning to think that there is a big scene waiting to happen, but it's just not. My master plan ? Open the top floor of the Palace on Camden St for Gigs. Remove the bar from the venue in whelans and bring back the Mean fiddler. I'll get my coat

Vent My Spleen

Advanced Member
Posts:500

4/16/2004 4:26 PM
Excellent! Could never quite put my finger on what it was about Vicar Street I didn't like. But any venue with a punter maning the jacks with Lynx & gum is not very rock and roll! God be with the days where bogs were for ching and passing out in your own vomit. This town needs some balls out dirty venues al right. And yes, we all loved McGonagles, even the fact that they only served wine!

PeterCushing

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Posts:1

4/18/2004 1:36 AM
The Dublin Music scene is far from dead. It's thriving. Whether you like it or not bands like the frames and artists like Damien Rice and Gemma Hayes are doing the business here at home and abroad. The fundamental problem with Bands like A House and Blink is that they couldn't shake that mid-80s, early 90s Sun studios sound. These records have aged very badly indeed. Newer artists like the Jimmy Cake, The Dudley Corporation, The Frames, Nina Hynes, The Tycho Brahe, Ann Scott etc. etc. transcend that sound and are definitely more globally viable than the aforementioned bands. The effect of the internet on Irish music is very apparent. Exposure to more eclectic music and the accessibilty of affordable home recording technology has led to an expansion of the Irish sound.

Rev Jules

Veteran Member
Posts:1041

4/29/2004 6:04 PM
Ahh look Lads (and Lassies) What is all this...'Oh yeah, today bands are much more helping each other out and sharing like and scratching each others backs...not like the bad old days'. Noodles. The Eighties Irish bands all were in cliques too. Anyone remember Lark In The Park and bands like... Light A Fire Under A Ghost of A Blue Flower in Cactus Heaven As for there being no decent venues... 'Isacc Butts' 'Parlour Bar' 'Slatterys Rathmines' Thats just three. ALl better than the Underground. And big record companies ? And promoting Irish Acts in the UK Charts ? And all those Irish acts making it big in the UK right now ?Sorry to tell y'all but right now Daniel O'Donnell is No.3 in the UK Album charts. Kids don't buy records, they don't surf the internet, they download onto their phones. Wanna make it big, write a ringtone.

Johnson

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Posts:21

4/29/2004 10:23 PM
Jesus I created a monster with this one. 1,345 readings of the post. There must be some sort of blue-peter type badge or equivalent going for this?????

Lucera

Basic Member
Posts:180

4/30/2004 11:21 AM
im a newbie to the (unsigned) Dublin scene, but all I have to say is it's fun, theres not alot of money in it, its expensive to get set up gear wise, but there are alot of sound(as in nice, easy goin..not the engineering sound) people involved. one thing that does amaze me however is the lack of women involved in the industry, from the unsigned side of things at least. maybe its cos women are better at men at this ASWEL as academia, (is sport the last bastion of male victory over females?) therefore go straight to the top. Overall though Johnson my friend, i'd so far say it seems the best place to be on this island at least! but then maybe goin back the years it was more vibrant than it appears now... as stated, I'm a new comer to this stuff.

Dromed

Advanced Member
Posts:900

4/30/2004 2:52 PM
I don't think women are better in music then men, or that men are better then women for that matter. I do think that it can be tougher for women in that it is a largely male dominated industry and because of this women generally have to prove they have talent and aren't just eye candy. Womens' sex appeal is sadly a huge factor in their success as musicians and performers. You rarely see a dog ugly female performer but there's plenty of rough looking guys fronting successful bands. Women are faced with the choice of using their sex appeal to their advantage where they can (and if they can) to further their careers, but run the risk of not being taken seriously. If they downplay that side of things (in the hope of being credited for their talent) they are often overlooked as not having enough 'commercial' appeal. In the pop world there's certainly a heavy emphasis on sex appeal across the genders and the guys are under as much pressure to look good (and there's generally not a huge amount of talent going on dare i say as well) but in the rock world, there's some surprisingly archaic attitudes towards women. Women often end up having to act ballsy or agressively to get to the top, and are seen as being hardnosed in the process. To be fair in Dublin there's an awful lot more ladies doing their thing now then there has been for a while. Think back to the early nineties and the eighties and there were comparatively few women fronting bands or putting out their own stuff. It can only be a good thing that they are making waves and inspiring younger girls to pick up an instrument and realise that they don't have to learn poxy dance routines to get somewhere. Well...that's my two cents worth anyway...now i'm off to...ahem...burn my bra or something

Binokular

Veteran Member
Posts:1665

4/30/2004 4:31 PM
Rock on Dromed! Totally with you on this one. Music is the one place where the playing field should be level, but sadly isn't. Being a typical bloke who suffers from foot-in-mouth disease though, its hard to take a stand on the gender issue without saying the wrong thing, so sorry if I offend anyone. I guess the misogyny that we find in rock goes right back to its roots in the blues, take song like "paying the cost to the boss" by B.B. King. It would be pretty hard to get that past the politically correct police today. Ironically I have to admit that I like this song, but in a tongue in cheek kind of way. I think this wrong but often harmless (and sometimes not so harmless) misogyny was carried over from the blues and amplified (no pun intended) in rock and roll, especially metal (which I would argue isn't really rock'n'roll, but thats another debate). Then there's the whole area of hip hop and rap, which really needs to sort itself out. As for burning your bra, please be more careful when leaning across a gas cooker.. oh damn, sorry! I knew I'd put my foot in it somehow, the sleater-kinney fans are gonna kill me! (attempts in vain to remove foot from mouth, though it should be noted that tongue is also firmly wedged in cheek)

Dromed

Advanced Member
Posts:900

5/4/2004 9:31 AM
Isn't it B.B King's daughter who's an amazing guitarist in her own right??? Think she appeared in a GAP ad at one stage, which maybe aint something to be too proud of, but she can handle an axe! It's just kind of sad that we could pretty much list any decent female 'rock' musicians on one hand like Patti Smith, Chrisie Hynde, Kim Deal, Kim Gordon etc there's not a huge amount at the end of the day. Madonna is an example of someone that has capitalised on her sexuality and while she can play, isn't known for her talent as a musician. The aforementioned ladies are all pretty androgynous (spelling?)so have they had to de-sexualise themselves to get where they did? I doubt it was a conscious thing for them, and of course there's plenty of men (and women) that like the androgny, but can glamour/femininity co-incide with being taken seriously as a musician? Joni Mitchill is about the only one I can think of that was, in my opinion, a great guitar player and without gettin her **** out managed to still maintain her femininity - it's a strange one though cos while I respect her as a musician I'm guilty of seeing her as being a bit twee perhaps for this same reason. I'd always prefer to see the girls hold their own without having to capitalise on their sex appeal. Unless of course they are Peaches. Peaches is my heroine.

Binokular

Veteran Member
Posts:1665

5/4/2004 10:12 AM
I don't know much about BB Kings' daughter, but she oughta be good if she got any lessons from her old man! As for listing of decent female rock stars on one hand, I think its more correct to say we could count the number of recognised, well known female rock stars on one hand. Theres lots of good female rockers, but they just don't get the same recognition as the guys and if the do it's often in a patronising "ooh aren't the girls clever" kind of way. Just off the top of my head I can add a few great female rockers to your list, how about Emily Haines (from Metric), Sioxsie Sioux, Poly Styrene (x-ray spex), Kristen Hersh, Tanya Donnelly (Belly, The Breeders, solo stuff), etc. If you expand the list to go outside the confines of rock, how about Bjork, Solex, Chicks on Speed, Missy Elliot, Miss Kittin, Nicola Kusperus (Adult.), etc. and that is just off the top of my head, if I sat down and thought about it I could come up with a longer list. The thing that really irritates me is that female acts are more likely to be dismissed as a novelty than their male counterparts who are doing the same thing. For example, Marc Bolan gets loads of respect, but not Suzi Quattro. Bon Jovis' soft metal is taken (relatively) seriously yet Heart are consigned to the dustbin of history. A lot of Hearts' later output is as mediocre as Bon Jovi, but "Barracuda" is a classic, kicks the arse out "Living on Prayer" any day. The Donnas get reviewed on the basis of the fact that they are Girls with Guitars, but Blink 182 get reviewed on their own merit (or lack of). Oh yeah, and I reckon Nicos' contribution to that first Velvet Underground album is underplayed, ok she didn't actually write the songs, but can you imagine anyone else singing "I'll be your mirror"? Some of her solo stuff is pretty good too.

Rev Jules

Veteran Member
Posts:1041

5/5/2004 8:14 PM
I'm sorry but I spent the best part of my teens contemplating Suzi Quatro with one hand

John Doe

Basic Member
Posts:338

5/6/2004 11:03 AM
Aren't we forgetting PJ Harvey, Tori Amos, Courtney Love, ( and before yiz all start, she had a band before she met Kurt ), Kate Bush, Chrissie Hynde, Melissa Auf Der Maur, and my own personal favourite, the very wonderful Aimee Mann.

John Doe

Basic Member
Posts:338

5/6/2004 11:06 AM
Oh, and just to bring this back on topic, the release of class albums by the likes of Ten Speed Racer, Turn, and the Future Kings of Spain would suggest to me that the Dublin scene is alive and kicking.

Dromed

Advanced Member
Posts:900

5/6/2004 12:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by John Doe Aren't we forgetting PJ Harvey, Tori Amos, Courtney Love, ( and before yiz all start, she had a band before she met Kurt ), Kate Bush, Chrissie Hynde, Melissa Auf Der Maur, and my own personal favourite, the very wonderful Aimee Mann. All worth mentioning John...but i'm just pointing out that it seems that comparatively there are way less noted female musicians then male, particularly fronting bands

Rev Jules

Veteran Member
Posts:1041

5/7/2004 8:18 PM
Ehh, maybe I was under a rock for the last decade but wasn't the biggest rock band to come out of Ireland in recent years fronted by a woman, a woman who has major problems hiring decent nannies ?

Dromed

Advanced Member
Posts:900

5/10/2004 9:28 AM
Rev. that's one band, out of how many??? and eh Dolores wouldn't spring to mind as a particularly talented musician IMO, in fact when did they even last release anything??...correction...when have they ever released anything good???

Rev Jules

Veteran Member
Posts:1041

5/10/2004 10:03 AM
Well, I have always been partial to their cover of Fleetwood Mac's 'Go Your Own Way' but then I am a little sick and twisted. On a more serious note, there are a number of female rockers you are forgetting... Joan Osbourne (pretty sexy too) Terri Clark Margo Timmins (Cowboy Junkies) Sheryl Crow Bonnie Raitt (taught slide guitar by the Great Willie Dixon) Alanis Morisette Ani DiFranco I think the above are all considered to be serious artists. By the way, apart from being a rockin' guitarist, Suzi Quatro is also a champion clay pigeon shooter.

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