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Last Post 1/31/2006 10:29 AM by  palace
So which irish songwriters do you like, then?
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palace
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1/31/2006 10:29 AM
    maybe you've done it to death but i haven't seen it... no new rock bands please - i've certainly heard that one to death... on the back of everyone forever constantly saying that irish singer / songwriters are unoriginal useless pieces of s**t, i'd like to hear something positive... obviously there are a few that fit in to the above category but what about the martin finkes, the adrian crowleys, the nina hynes' etc?.. and whatever you think about hansard the man, can you not see the undoubted beauty in a record like 'for the birds'?.. ...although opinions on other subjects seem to be very informed, this one always appears to be black or white. ...just wondering, like....
    Mar
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    1/31/2006 10:55 AM
    In general it's not my type of thing but Mick Flannery is about the only singer-songwriter type Irish act that i've heard that i actually thought was good, he's from Cork, only saw him for the first time a few months ago and was blown away, www.mickflannery.com has some songs you can download
    Unicron
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    1/31/2006 10:56 AM
    I don't tend to chip in to these conversations because I don't see the point of endless he's good/he's s**te type conversations but as you asked, I like: - The first 2 David Kitt albums, hated the third one, the covers one was something of a return to form. - Gemma Hayes' first album, some might say that it's paperthin indie-lite but I think it's got a lot of charm. - Pete Courtney is pretty good from the little I've heard. - Brendan O'Shea - Jape's most recent album, not so hot on the first one. - Damien Rice, I'm a big fan (somewhere off the west coast of Ireland a surfing cowboy just shuddered). As for Glen Hansard, I like The Frames, they're a very good band, maybe not as good as the size of their audience here warrants but a lot better than their international audience reflects, they can be s**t-hot live but I always felt that their studio albums do don't them justice.
    Mully
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    1/31/2006 11:29 AM
    Emmet Tinley, is about the only one around at the moment. The Devlins are a very, very guilty pleasure.
    Una
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    1/31/2006 12:38 PM
    I second that Emmet Tinley vote Mully. My favourite is probably Niall James Holohan though. So much material around if you want to check it out www.nialljamesholohan.com
    Braighni
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    1/31/2006 3:31 PM
    I'm a huge Roesy fan myself. I really like Emmet Tinleys voice but maybe haven't heard the right song yet. Also I saw some guy called Elton Mullany once who I can't track down since. A fantastic voice and some great songs. Maybe someone here knows him. I think he was in Brando and DeNiro but these two have also gone off the radar.
    klootfan
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    1/31/2006 3:37 PM
    Martin Finke.. Some really mellow stuff at times, really simple tunes but powerfull all the same. But he can also do heavier faster songs which are also excellent
    Mully
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    1/31/2006 3:40 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Braighni
    Also I saw some guy called Elton Mullany once who I can't track down since. A fantastic voice and some great songs. Maybe someone here knows him. I think he was in Brando and DeNiro but these two have also gone off the radar.
    Mullally. Yeah, Brando were class. Split in late 2002. I was lucky to pick up some singles/eps when they were about. Elton works in Celtic Note on Nassau St., if you wanna ask what he is up to.
    aidan
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    1/31/2006 5:47 PM
    jenny lindfors is really good - and there's a guy from killarney called jamie burke (I think) who I like too - hopefully both will have platinum albums, cool t-shirts, stadium gigs, etc very soon....
    jmc105
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    1/31/2006 6:43 PM
    paul tiernan - great voice, great guitar playing, great songs. some mp3 on his site - www.paultiernan.com glen hansard the singer is amazing, love his voice. he writes great songs, as a singer/songwriter (solo) he gives good gig, reckon the frames are one of irelands top bands. never met the guy so i can't comment on him as a person, but as a musician he's quality. won't mention any diminutive cellbridge native... 'o' no, not again...
    MarkO
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    2/1/2006 5:52 AM
    quote:
    ........ As for Glen Hansard, I like The Frames, they're a very good band, maybe not as good as the size of their audience here warrants but a lot better than their international audience reflects, they can be s**t-hot live but I always felt that their studio albums do don't them justice.
    I agree. They are way better live than on record. Their audiences are growing but not as much as their touring schedule deserves. Their fans can be quite fanatical though.
    miwadi
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    2/1/2006 4:48 PM
    Understand people always say this about the Frames, but For the Birds could not be any better, even if they were playing in front of me.
    jmc105
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    2/1/2006 5:09 PM
    love for the birds. i think it's just that a good gig is maybe a better overall experience than listening to a cd, and frames gigs are usually very good.
    palace
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    2/1/2006 5:21 PM
    i didn't really want this to turn in to another frames thread but i do happen to agree with miwadi... for me, anyone who abuses for the birds as some copycat singer songwriter formula is completely missing the point... anyway, martin finke writes indie-poetry that is hard to match, adrian crowley does similar, nina hynes is ploughing her own furrow quite successfully... i hate the generalisation that irish singer / songwriters have no originality... the good ones are just working under the radar somewhat, just like everywhere else in the world
    Gar
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    2/1/2006 5:51 PM
    There are plenty of really good singer/songwriters on these shores: Gemma Hayes Nina Hynes Colm Lynch Ann Scott Clive Barnes Julie Feeney Brendan O'Shea David Kitt Roesy Mark Geary Jenny Lindfors Cathy Davey Neosupervital Declan O'Rourke Elaine K Ian Whitty Tadhg Cooke Alyanya Katell Keineg Goodtime John Jamie Lawson Alice Jago Joe Whyte The Mighty Stef Fionn Regan Iain Archer Joe Chester Mundy Stewart Agnew Jeff Martin Damien Rice John Spillane Bill Coleman Fiach Shay Cotter Adrian Crowley Yngve Donal Lunny Christy Moore Damien Dempsey Jonathan Casey Ronan O Snodaigh
    palace
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    2/1/2006 6:02 PM
    now gar... as much as i admire your enthusiasm and whilst noting that i was the one who was complaining at everyone's bitching about irish talent... you've gone a step too far there... i think we can (almost) universally agree that a few of those names are examples of why the whole genre has been tarred with the same brush... i'd hate to name them though... that would be cruel
    Gar
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    2/1/2006 6:10 PM
    Well the thread was turning into a 'Are The Frames better live or on cd' debate so I went back to the original point where you wanted to know what good singer/songwriters are out there. Despite people's personal opinions on some of the acts mentioned above, I'd be happy to pay to see any of them live or pick up their latest release. By listing so many, I was merely trying to include more names into the discussion rather than everyone agreeing on one or two - thus answering your question.
    palace
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    2/1/2006 6:23 PM
    i know, gar... i'm sorry... i think it just defeated the purpose of trying to find out whether the dissenters thought that there was any talent out there, whatsoever... and thus come to some sort of agreement on the cream of the crop... none of them seem to be commenting, though... i'll try a different approach now, i know i wrote a review of his last album, but surely there isn't anyone out there who thinks that martin finke is "just another boring singer / songwriter"?
    jmc105
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    2/1/2006 7:01 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by palace now, i know i wrote a review of his last album, but surely there isn't anyone out there who thinks that martin finke is "just another boring singer / songwriter"?
    i saw him in the half moon a few years ago - supporting josh ritter i think, or maybe twas the other way round - and i wasn't exactly blown away. i got the feeling that he wasn't really comfortable on the stage, and his singing and playing weren't great. i did like the song about 'regaling other men with tales that i'd be seeing you again', and went out and got 'untended stories', so he did make some kind of an impression... i think his lyrics are really good, i just get the feeling that the music is very much secondary to the words. maybe he'd be better off writing as a poet? as someone who's clearly interested in the less well-known members of the irish singer/songwriter community, have you heard paul tiernan at all? would be interested to know what you think...
    Binokular
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    2/1/2006 7:25 PM
    I just think it's a daft question that highlights why many of us are just cheesed off with the whole so-called "singer songwiter" thing. The problem is the narrow definition of songwriter. Neosupervital writes brilliant songs, on a Synthar, but thats outside the cliche of Dylanesque semi-acoustic rock that seems to class someone as a "singer songwriter". There just seems to be a big deal about the acousting weilding folks "write songs", well guess what, so does everyone else who creates original music + lyrics, and anyway theres no shame in letting someone else write the tunes for you (e.g. Motown). I just think that whole scene needs to get less hung up on making a big deal about bein "real" and "writing own songs" and just get on with making great music by any and all means neccesary. Right, now that my grumpy old man rant is over, time to run for cover from the inevitable, coffee house, accoustic loving, tree hugger jihad. Ah, moderator instigated flame wars, isn't that what Cluas is all about? feel the love...
    palace
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    2/1/2006 7:45 PM
    not quite sure i get your point there, binokular, other than to say that aligning every piece of music to a genre is unhealthy... which is true... guess i jsut started the thread because i wanted an argument... it wasn't forthcoming though... maybe everyone's scared? jmc, all i've heard of paul tiernan was his live version of 'belle' on the first other voices cd which sounded rather lovely
    dera
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    2/2/2006 12:54 AM
    This reminds me of an essay I read once, a good one too, by Flannery O'Connor, "The Serious Writer and the Tired Reader". We want to be transported at once, she said, to a mock damnation or mock redemption . I think maybe one of the reasons *Martin Finke's not on the telly and, you know, *whatshisname is, is just that. The serious writer understands that you can't just draw on the well-ploughed land. The tired reader wants the picture postcard scene, which is what whatshisname does so well. But as someone said, the discussion needs something more than 'he's good, he's shiiite', or that great Irish Times Music Review staple - "Unlike the vast majority of miserable Irish s***er-s******rs, is..." etc No, tell me about the aesthetic of a songwriter you like. Tell me what's s/he's done that makes your heart skip a beat or beat like a drum. Then we can talk, you know? I mean, really you'll just be telling me about you, but it might be a good conversation. *"Martin Finke" and "whatshisname" bear no resemblance to actual characters, etc etc. Just used as example because he's particularly emblematic.
    aidan
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    2/2/2006 11:48 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by dera
    No, tell me about the aesthetic of a songwriter you like. Tell me what's s/he's done that makes your heart skip a beat or beat like a drum. Then we can talk, you know? I mean, really you'll just be telling me about you, but it might be a good conversation.
    grand so, I'll take you up on that. I mentioned jenny lindfors and jamie burke - she writes songs that I find very melodic, with solid structures like hooks, choruses, etc, (not like others who don't write choruses or catchy melodies) and her lyrics seem well-thought-out without being pretentious or self-absorbed. jamie burke's stuff was similar (I saw him in a support slot at whelans once). importantly for me, both seem not to take themselves too seriously, they have a sense of humour and they look like they're enjoying themselves - which helps me to enjoy myself when I listen to music or go to a concert.
    Binokular
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    2/3/2006 8:44 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by palace
    not quite sure i get your point there, binokular, other than to say that aligning every piece of music to a genre is unhealthy... which is true...
    Nope, closer to my point would be to say that singer-songwriter isn't a genre, it's an occupation. Isaac Hayes is a singer songwriter (yes, the bald dude who wrote the Shaft theme), he sings and has written hordes of classic songs. The same could be said of Barry White (who was also a genius producer), but no one remembers them as "singer songwriters", they're remembered as Soul music legends. So by referring to an artist merely as a singer-songwriter, it highlights what they do rather than what they create. What they create is ultimately far more important. In a sense the singer-sonwriter tag indicates lack of any real defining accomplisment?
    dera
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    2/3/2006 9:40 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Binokular
    quote:
    Originally posted by palace
    not quite sure i get your point there, binokular, other than to say that aligning every piece of music to a genre is unhealthy... which is true...
    Nope, closer to my point would be to say that singer-songwriter isn't a genre, it's an occupation. Isaac Hayes is a singer songwriter (yes, the bald dude who wrote the Shaft theme), he sings and has written hordes of classic songs. The same could be said of Barry White (who was also a genius producer), but no one remembers them as "singer songwriters", they're remembered as Soul music legends. So by referring to an artist merely as a singer-songwriter, it highlights what they do rather than what they create. What they create is ultimately far more important. In a sense the singer-sonwriter tag indicates lack of any real defining accomplisment?
    The near-universal abuse of the s/s term as denoting "man/woman+acoustic guitar" (with very minor variations) does de facto make it almost a genre description though, much as that pains me, and, I gather, you.
    monkey
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    2/5/2006 7:32 PM
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    by the way, what do people think of record companies hiring buskers to play "walk the line" as a part of a promotional campaign for the new movie/cd? link here - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2003838,00.html
    terrible "Busking, which used to be an alternative lifestyle, is now part of the corporate world." - a quote from that site
    Mully
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    2/6/2006 2:05 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by monkey
    quote:
    by the way, what do people think of record companies hiring buskers to play "walk the line" as a part of a promotional campaign for the new movie/cd? link here - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2003838,00.html
    terrible "Busking, which used to be an alternative lifestyle, is now part of the corporate world." - a quote from that site
    The Soundtrack album, has Witherspoon & Pheonix singing the songs. Why, oh why, would anyone prefer this to the man himself ? A royaltys swindle ?
    Gar
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    2/6/2006 2:23 PM
    Maybe the Cash-Carter family didn't give them the rights. Or maybe James Mangold preferred to stick with the actor's vocals.
    d.o.b.3
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    2/6/2006 3:02 PM
    here's some playing tomorrow night tues 7th feb in the ruby sessions in doyle's. joe chester vesta varro tom kitt derrick devine. 5 euro in proceeds to charity.
    mutch
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    2/6/2006 3:27 PM
    jenny lindfors is one of the only good singer/songwriters i've come accross in my admittedly limited exposure to singer songwriters(i avoid them like nettles!) fantastic voice and delivery. i'm prob alone(on cluas at least) on this one but Sean Tyrrell is a genius arranger and performer, http://www.seantyrrell.com/frameset.html. the words pour out of him. it perplexes me to listen to him and then see some of your choices. standards for musicians seem so much lower these days, i sometimes wonder if the machines and tools of the studio are doin too much of the work for musicians heh. despite my negativity towards singer songwriters, i suppose its brilliant to have an abundance of artists. its one of the great things about this little island!
    MarkO
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    2/7/2006 10:59 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Gar
    There are plenty of really good singer/songwriters on these shores:
    Mark Geary is terrible. Sorry. I hope I never am subjected to that rubbish again.


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