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Last Post 10/7/2005 10:25 AM by  roseanne barrs armpit
RBA says: ‘how come cluas is so unpopular?’
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roseanne barrs armpit
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10/7/2005 10:25 AM
    could it be because of all the members who like to write thousand word dissertations on why some album or artist is so amazingly fantastic but in reality are just trying to make themselves look intelligent and knowledgeable about music. s**t, theres about ten posts a day here compared to (another irish music forums) several hundred. why? because you all take yourself far too seriously. ciao
    benni
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    10/7/2005 10:35 AM
    contro-versial
    roseanne barrs armpit
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    10/7/2005 10:45 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by benni
    contro-versial
    yeah i'm on a mad subversive buzz
    klootfan
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    10/7/2005 10:49 AM
    Cluas is what it is...if you dont like it, then move on. Its a bit childish to make posts purely designed to get on peoples nerves. Grow up.
    Binokular
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    10/7/2005 10:57 AM
    Nah, it doesn't get on my nerves. Yep, this is blatantly obviously a troll, but still at least RBA gives a reason why he doesn't like Cluas, rather than just saying "Cluas is rubbish". Whether the the point RBA makes is valid, I'll leave up to you. I'm a moderator, that means I remove stuff thats potentially libelous/offensive, move posts to the correct forums, delete cross posting or spam and try to get people to behave, but thats it. At the end of the day, this forum is exactly what its members make it, if you want it to be a better place, its down to the quality of what you post. Over to you folks....
    Earthhorse
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    10/7/2005 10:58 AM
    I assume you're referring to Thumped when you mention "another Irish music forum". Thing about Thumped is, it's pretty much one joke. Over and over and over again. It's a bit of a love in frankly, but then most bulletin boards are. I agree that Cluas can be a bit humourless at times but frankly I like the balance I get between reading here and browsing Thumped. The music boards over at boards.ie also seem to have struck a good balance, though there's often a lot of irrelevant drivel there as well. Anyway, if I had to lose one, it'd be Thumped, but, judging from your post, you're the only one taking yourself too seriously.
    benni
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    10/7/2005 11:04 AM
    whatever man most people post on a range of forums for different reasons I got much needed info on a band on thumped yest that i couldnt get here doesnt make thumped better than cluas etc. Just different.
    jmc105
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    10/7/2005 11:26 AM
    well, i think it's a good question tho - and the recent little redesign of the front page of this site would suggest that the people running cluas are also wondering about the low level of activity on the forum. to be fair , i don't think it's because a few members tend to post mini-dissertations from time to time - some people who post on here really know their music, and/or how to use google, and i've read countless well-written, informative and entertaining posts on this forum. i think there are two reasons why this forum is relatively quiet. first, there is quite a lot of negativity here, especially towards irish bands/musicians. surely most visitors to a site that's "lending an ear to the irish music scene" will be fans of at least some irish musicians. people like paddy casey, damien rice, the frames, declan o'rourke etc etc have sold a s**tload in ireland. obviously if you don't like it you don't like it, but the overwhelming hatred expressed on the forum for those bands must turn a lot of people away. i think if there was a little more tolerance, if differing opinions could be respected, there would be a much higher level of activity. the other reason, i think, is the attitude towards new members, or sometimes even existing ones. there's no 'introduce yourself' forum for newbies, and not enough effort made to encourage new members or make them feel welcome. i had a fairly crap experience with a moderator and later administrator of this forum, and the over-riding message was: this is our toy, we're in charge and you don't count. (obviously the truth is that i am actually a crazyperson, no-one involved in the running of cluas is less than perfect, and could ever do any wrong). another example, rather recently, of the same kind of thing involved a once regular poster, who i personally saw as on of the more balanced, interesting users of the forum, attacked rather visciously, and unfairly. end result was that this user now posts a fraction of what they used to. if i wasn't such a stubborn f**ker there's no way i'd have read this thread, let alone reply to it. i don't think cluas is boring, and i don't think it should drop it's standards, i just think some people need to realise that it is possible for two different opinions to both be valid, and that a little respect goes a long way.
    Earthhorse
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    10/7/2005 11:57 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by benni
    whatever man most people post on a range of forums for different reasons I got much needed info on a band on thumped yest that i couldnt get here doesnt make thumped better than cluas etc. Just different.
    The original post was about popularity. Popularity implies preference and I was simply expressing my preference for Cluas. I don't want any forum to go away, I can just ignore it if I like. As Beck once sampled, "We're all part of the total scene!".
    benni
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    10/7/2005 12:08 PM
    no no man i agree with you! What i mean is.... the original title - calling one forum unpopular and laying into members etc is silly cause at the end of the day most members of cluas are members of all the other boards too so its not really that segregated at all. I mean i post here more than on any other forum its nothing to do with loyalty or anything its just the way its worked out.
    Earthhorse
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    10/7/2005 12:11 PM
    Aw crud! I wasn't sure if you were disagreeing with me or not but my ego couldn't let it lie! I think the Cluas forum dropped off in popularity years ago when they moved to the current format. Before that there was a lot more activity, or maybe it just seemed that way because of the layout.
    Binokular
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    10/7/2005 12:15 PM
    So folks, whadya gonna do about it? Cluas has had lull periods before, discussion boards tend to ebb and flow (like any conversation really), you gotta start new threads, and respond to existing ones to keep it alive. Anyway, rather than be a hypocrite, I'm gonna start one, yeah, a little contrived maybe, but if it gets discussions going thats all that matters.
    stroller
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    10/7/2005 2:44 PM
    I would argue that it's the members of Thumped who take themselves far too seriously and who try too hard to make themselves look intelligent and knowledgeable about music. I've contemplated joining that site several times but the constant cynicism just does my head in; "The Arcade Fire just rip off U2", "The Flaming Lips went to sh*t once they signed to Warner", plus every new band with even a hint of a public profile is dismissed as NME/MTV2 marketed garbage. Also I can't stand their obsession with obscurity. The posters only seem to be happy when they're discussing their favourite b-sides by some long forgotten Fugazi spin off band. If you actually went on there and said something positive about somebody relatively well known but decent like say Kings of Leon or Interpol they'd bite your head off. I blame that whole rep/points system. Frankly I don't like the idea of logging on and having to consciously try to be as underground and unenthusiastic as possible for fear of being leapt upon by a bunch of bitter failed Dublin musicians and frustrated IT consultants who'r rather take their problems out on me instead of leaving them in the work place.
    stephen
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    10/9/2005 12:14 PM
    Interesting thread. I've been with CLUAS for a long time (since its inception, in fact) and the Discussion Forums are one of my favourite sections of the website. I've visited countless sites introduced to the forum by Una, Gar and others who seems to make infinitely better use of the web than I do. Bands I have discovered here include the great (Arcade Fire), the interesting (the Kanye West/Beach Boys mash up site from a few months ago) to the cretinous (Republic of Loose who make a fascinating live spectacle though...). I should post more but I suspect I am like many other users in that I lurk here during whatever few minutes I get free in work. I read, digest, maybe explore based on what I read. If you take the time to actually write something here, please remember that there are many more people who read these posts that you realise. One of the comments earlier in the thread bears more examination. The fact that CLUAS "lends an ear to the Irish music scene" cannot be denied. The fact that it is a critical ear is a positive facet of the site but I believe that it can be alienating to those who are maybe not as "musically educated" as some of our newer contributors. I would like to see an inclusive attitude - "Ah... I see you like Damien Rice... have you ever listened to Sufjan Stevens? I think you might like him...". Una is especially good at this. It only takes one positive experience on CLUAS for someone to come back regularly. The idea that there should be somewhere for new contributors to introduce themselves is a good one I think and should be considered by the admin and moderators. Maybe a standard questionnaire that's a mixture of serious and silly that's kept towards the top of the board for new people and lurkers to let us know they exist?
    Libero
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    10/9/2005 7:54 PM
    Bravo Stroller, bravo. Lots of kids on Thumped. It's like the Oxegen camping area in that while you might find cheerful old veterans willing to impart their wisdom, you're far more likely to get the online equivalent of a 15 year olds puking on you and setting fire to your tent.
    eoghan
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    10/10/2005 11:53 AM
    For once, a thread that starts out as a troll and descends into something interesting and worthwhile. A couple of quick points: • A discussion on popularity of this site that only considers the discussion board, is a narrow one. Especially when you consider that the discussion board constitutes less then half of all traffic to the site (in terms of page impressions). CLUAS is not a one-trick pony. • A well established and accepted indicator of quality / popularity of a website are the search engines which (most of the time) succeed in filtering out the dross. CLUAS has excellent rankings with all the major search engines and especially for some relevant keywords. Do a search for ‘irish indie’ (for example) or ‘Irish indie music’ with Google and, sure, that wouldn’t be CLUAS now that appears at the top of the results, would it? • The emphasis on the CLUAS discussion board is not on ‘quantity’. Take for example the average number of replies per topic on this board, which is deffo less than on some other similar boards (on thumped for example, on their busiest ‘sub-board’ they get an average of 17 replies per topic, here on the Soap Box the average is 7.5 replies per topic). But I don’t think the quality of the threads here has suffered as a consequence, au contraire, etc. • There’s no plans afoot round these parts to please all of the people, all of the time. So if someone is not happy with the way things are on this board (not enough new topics per day, too many – er – humourless cretins like me, etc) well there’s no one twisting their arms insisting they stay. • Having said all that I do think there is scope for the average number of topics per day on this board to increase without compromising the quality of the discussions. But that is simply up to the users of the board to do. If you want a better board, than make it better. • I think jmc105’s the idea of having an ‘introduce yourself’ forum for new (and existing) members is a good one and I will look into rolling one out in the coming week. Finally, keeping in step with the spirit of, er, humourlessness that pervades these parts I’ve changed the title of this thread from ‘how come cluas is so unpopular?’ to “RBA says: ‘how come cluas is so unpopular?’” eoghan (moderator, admin, dour little Hitler and all that)
    Rev Jules
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    10/10/2005 11:53 AM
    Hmm, interesting points here. With regard to 'lending an ear to Irish music', Cluas does that, what it doesn't do is give fawning uncritical praise to a particular musician just to appease their fans. There are fan sites for that sort of thing...and Hot Press. In other words, Cluas is about balance, for and against, you like it / I don't like it, and vice versa. I have made this point before, if Cluas is so off the curve, then why have so many music journalists borrowed from it in the last year ? Cluas was the first to re-evaluate the Irish Singer Songwriter scene and start asking were all the artists of that scene as good as they were being made out to be and, since then, a number of irish newspapers have followed our lead. But that agenda was set by the people who read, write and post on cluas and nobody else. Even so, we do have the annual readers and writers poll and this is how Irish music fared last year http://www.cluas.com/poll/2004/default.htm Considering the vast majority of the acts who made the number one spot in the various categories were Irish, I think it is fair to say that an ear is being lent to Irish music.
    Punchbowl
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    10/10/2005 12:04 PM
    A friend of mine wrote this recently and it seems fit right in with this thread http://nationalheadache.blogspot.com/
    Vent My Spleen
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    10/10/2005 1:55 PM
    Unfortunately, as evidenced by this discussion board, we are lending an ear to a music scene that has been in decline for years now. The last band here that there was even a minor buzz about was ROL and that was minimal enough. If there is a perception of 'Local Act bashing' on this board, I strongly suggest it is because of the relatively poor quality of acts dominating the Irish scene over recent years in comparison to the vastly superior acts from overseas. Believe me, I'd be delighted if there were local acts of the quality of Iron and Wine, Sufjan Stevens, Wilco etc but that is just not the case. Equally, my experience here is that the people posting to this board go out and find good music from all corners of the globe. Unlike ten years ago, I am no more than a few keyboard strokes away from a wealth of new music and am unlikely to content myself with Paddy Casey.
    stacy
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    10/11/2005 4:13 PM
    in fairness i think cluas tries. there are reviews and actual features, which are rare for irish music. a few things that annoy me: -the colour scheme and general design. -the moderation of the forum seems a bit over the top at times. -the email system is riddled with popups. -i don’t think the amount of traffic warrants separate new release/gig/general discussion -boards. some threads have 5 views. other sites: cpu.ie -“we’re an indie band, please sign us” kind of place. the whole band profile thing is okay, but myspace can do that job. the site just seems very cheesy or something. goldenplec.com -bit of a pointless place altogether. thumped.com -by far the busiest site around. good mp3 archive, and an entertaining read. it could do with some more music discussion and less sarcasm all the same. emohardcore.tk -always good for a laugh. every site needs seperate punk, hardcore and post hardcore boards.
    jmc105
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    10/11/2005 7:36 PM
    there's certainly more to cluas.com that just the discussion boards, but i think the criticism voiced by rba was of the boards, not the site as a whole. the reviews, mp3s etc on this site are great, and that was what impressed me most when i first found cluas. but i think that the discussion boards are the most important part of the site - both for increasing traffic, and for the future of the site itself. regular users of the boards will surely visit the site more frequently than those who just check back for new reviews/mp3s etc, simply because those updates don't happen every day. (that's not a criticism, by the way...) while these boards are quieter than some others, they're far from dead, and i'd imagine most regulars check in every day, or most days. so more users of the boards will increase traffic for the whole site. i'd also imagine that those who contribute reviews, features etc started participating in cluas on the discussion boards. the larger the community grows here, the more material for the rest of the site is likely to be created, which should in turn generate more traffic for the whole site, and on and on. so whatever the answer, it's worth asking the question: is there anything about these boards that might be turning people off? eoghan wrote that there are no plans to please all of the people all of the time, and rev jules pointed out that cluas doesn't give fawning uncritical praise to musicians just to appease fans. but surely (and i'm talking about the boards here) cluas "is" all of the people who use the site, which should include fans (and anti-fans) of pretty much every kind of music/musician there is (even singer-songwriters). moderators are not journalists. it's not their job to decide what the tone of the discussion/opinion that this board generates will be. it is their job, i feel, to maintain an atmosphere (for the want of a better word) that encourages those who want to post to do so, and thereby to let the users of cluas.com decide what it does or doesn't "do". (hey, i used the word 'thereby'! bonus point for me). i don't think that more is always better, and i do think that there are great, entertaining posts to found here, and i even like blue and mauve-y/purple. but i think that it's in the interest of the whole site to have a thriving community on the discussion forums. and i think the most important thing to help that happen is tolerance - one man's fawning uncritical praise (of a talentless, irritating hippy) is another man's considered, informed opinion (of a talented, irritating hippy). or woman's.
    Damien
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    10/11/2005 10:12 PM
    Interestingly enough Cluas doesn't have links to any other Irish music pages/resources, nor have I ever seen a link to Cluas on any other Irish music site. This might go some of the way towards explaining the lack of traffic and forum activity.
    Binokular
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    10/12/2005 8:40 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Damien
    Interestingly enough Cluas doesn't have links to any other Irish music pages/resources, nor have I ever seen a link to Cluas on any other Irish music site. This might go some of the way towards explaining the lack of traffic and forum activity.
    Er yeah, thats my fault, never got round to coding the pages....
    Dromed
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    10/12/2005 8:41 AM
    Myself and another Cluas writer spent a few weeks putting together pages of links on Irish bands, recording studios, radio stations, labels etc...as well as label and studio links for abroad - all of which were really quite useful - but it failed to materialise on the website. Likewise I put togther a page of biographies (!) of the regualr reviwers and writers which was quite funny - the writers had contributed their own pieces and in the end it read well. Again never turned up. Shame.
    Binokular
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    10/12/2005 8:56 AM
    Eoghan does have the pages I did get around to coding by the way Dromed (roughly half that "encyclopedia galactica" of links), he's obviously finding getting them finished just as depressingly mind numbing and time consuming as I did. Seems harder to work from a word doc, than just to code from scratch, and I don't have anything nearly as fancy as Macromedia Dreamweaver at my disposal. I know that you can convert word docs straight to HTML but the results were undesireable with too much extraneous code to strip out. Learn HTML?
    Dromed
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    10/12/2005 12:34 PM
    Yeah doing the pages was pretty mind numbing and time consuming and I had told Eoghan that I wouldn't be able to do the web coding and that I don't have HTML. However it was deemed a worthy exercise to carry out as we'd agreed that the pages would be useful. I did my part...don't know what happend after that cos I wasn't told.
    eoghan
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    10/12/2005 1:56 PM
    Oh lord. I’ve been snared rapid. And rightly so. Those ½ coded links to other sites have been sitting in my lap now for a while since Binokular sent them on to me. And – more shamefully – the excellent writers biogs that Dromed put together have been utterly neglected by me. For what it’s worth I offer my genuine apologies to Dromed for my inaction – she did a stellar job, I just took my easily distracted eye off the ball. I’m now going to make these a proper priority for the site and get them – links and writer biogs - live on the site ASAP. The work done will not go to waste. As if I wouldn’t be embarrassed enough by my admissions above of inaction, I today noted another colossal oversight. Since July 20 it has been – and wait for this – impossible to register as a new member of this board because of a change I made to the server that day back in July. Yes, not one single new person could register from July 20 up to today. To cut a long story short, I now realize that the change – unbeknownst to me until today - screwed up the ‘member registration’ function. I think I have now corrected it fully. But this is a major screw up on my part. Several 100 people tried to register as members in the intervening period but could not. Good news is I still have their email address and they still are in the user database (but their accounts are not yet activated). I will tonight email them all so that they can activate their accounts and start posting to the board if they wish. This I am now sure is a MAJOR reason why traffic on the discussion board was not higher then some may have expected in the last few months. So yeah, I am majorly embarrassed. Sorry to all who have been inconvenienced. Sometimes I just feel like a crappy juggler who has too many balls to keep his eye on. eoghan
    eoghan
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    10/12/2005 1:59 PM
    While I’m at it, I wanted to pick up on two comments in Stacy’s considered posting above: • She spoke of the “the moderation of the forum seems a bit over the top at times”. Yes I agree, there have been some moments where moderators (myself included) were over-zealous at times but I think the moderating team have now fallen into the right groove, so to speak. And I would not hesitate to say that I think it is thanks (partly) to the moderation that there is a relative lack of sarcasm and cat-calling on this board, compared to other similar boards. Going a step further, the high quality (or what me finks is high quality) of engaging and informed discussion that goes on around here I think is also due partly to the moderation. The rest of the credit goes – obviously - to the community of active and constructive members who post here. • Stacy also said she did “not think the amount of traffic warrants separate new release/gig/general discussion -boards. Some threads have 5 views.” Yes, some threads have only “5 views” but they are a very insignificant minority. If we stuck all messages – pure discussion, gig announcements, musicians wanted, etc – into one big “catch all” mega discussion board things would get very messy, very quickly. eoghan
    Dromed
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    10/12/2005 3:34 PM
    Eoghan...deep breathes...you are a fine juggler! These things happen and it's pretty tough to fit this stuff in when it's not your full time job. Just hope the links and biogs are up-to-date still - that's the danger with these things!
    fiddlechick
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    10/13/2005 11:41 AM
    I really enjoy cluas for some of the reasons listed above as negatives - few replies are often a really good thing. I hate having to wade through random comments and little personal asides to fellow posters - cluas is about the bare essentials - people just say what needs to be said and no more. There's no point in everyone contributing the same recommendations etc. Like stephen, I sometimes post but most of the time I just browse - almost daily at this stage! I don't feel the need to repeat what's already been said or what's already obvious. Thankfully most people who use these boards have a similar attitude - unlike other boards! Cluas is an efficient and enjoyable read. What more do you want???
    Damien
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    10/13/2005 3:25 PM
    f**king Thumped queers...
    Binokular
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    10/13/2005 3:39 PM
    Ok, lets not get into mudslinging here Aggrojoe, one (non)word dismissive replies to a post someone has actually taken time and thought to write are not big or clever, even if you don't agree. So don't do it, OK?
    admin
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    10/14/2005 3:01 PM
    Remember my screw up that meant no new members who had joined the board since July 20th could ‘activate’ their account? Well the damage limitation effort on that front is going okay. I last night emailed the 200+ plus people who tried to register on the board since July 20th to tell them all had been fixed and already over 40 of them have since activated their accounts (as he wipes the sweat off his brow and releases a deep breath). eoghan
    bad chicken
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    10/15/2005 7:28 PM
    its a good thing , sorry but its pretty local.
    Una
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    10/18/2005 12:09 AM
    You think that a group of people obsessed with the obscure and pretentions of the world would ENJOY a site with such little traffic and interference?... I joke, I joke. Cluas is a fine message board, populated with a small concentration with a fairly decent pool of knowledge. That's what is most important for a specialist site. I can't bear message boards where 285 conversations are happening on each thread. And the kind of conservative seriousness of the administration and general tone is endearing, in my opinion. We have all attacked and been attacked on the board, both fairly and unfairly, but so what, that is merely a symptom of healthy debate. Of course, it could be better, but so could every other element of life. Apart from my writing. Zing.
    Damien
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    10/18/2005 7:03 AM
    I'd like to comment on what you've just said Una, but I'm transfixed by the '666 posts' under your name...
    MarkO
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    10/18/2005 11:29 AM
    I'm only an occasional poster here but I enjoy the lenghtier (is that even a word?) discussions a lot.
    pvc
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    10/18/2005 1:26 PM
    only new here,as i couldn register for some reason but i find there is alot more useful info here,where with thumped there is lots of "Favourite Album Cover?" discussions.
    dionsiseire
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    11/7/2005 2:16 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by stacy
    in fairness i think cluas tries. there are reviews and actual features, which are rare for irish music. a few things that annoy me: -the colour scheme and general design. -the moderation of the forum seems a bit over the top at times. -the email system is riddled with popups. -i don’t think the amount of traffic warrants separate new release/gig/general discussion -boards. some threads have 5 views. other sites: cpu.ie -“we’re an indie band, please sign us” kind of place. the whole band profile thing is okay, but myspace can do that job. the site just seems very cheesy or something. goldenplec.com -bit of a pointless place altogether. thumped.com -by far the busiest site around. good mp3 archive, and an entertaining read. it could do with some more music discussion and less sarcasm all the same.
    Define Pointless - as the Goldenplec admin id like to know why people think Goldenplec is pointless. i love the way people can never actually say what they mean, believe me i can take some criticism. its the only way the site will evolve i work hard on Goldenplec but Goldenplec isnt Cluas, Cluas focus's on irish music is unique, it does it in a un-biased way and should be applauded. Goldenplec is a News about bands playing in ireland, a place for irish bands to pimp themselves, link to their sites, link to the music and through our new site www.totallyirish.com do a myspace without the advertising. we also throw in an arcade for messing about in and a chat room which works in most college's under normal college restrictions. its a utility site more than anything and in its 2 years of inception there are a lot of things i meant to do (artist profiles, venue profiles, Reviews, Interviews) and there's some stuff i dabbled in for the experience, like running the 2 charity gigs for temple street in the TBMC. Whilst i would love to focus on the irish scene there are other popular sites doing it, CPU try to offer some services and Cluas tries to provide information in abundance. I didnt create goldenplec to pit it against CPU or CLUAS or Thumped and people who think that are wrong. Goldenplec is a General Music Site, We Specialize in Nothing, provide no reviews or in general opinions. Goldenplec merely allows for chilling, Chatting and general music news whilst irish artists can "pimp" themselves without someone needing to code something, News is Submitted through a form Downloads and links are the same once approved immediately go live on the site. that was the concept. instant info on the site. Goldenplec was very busy this year in Jan - May but since the summer has died a lot in activity. i'll work on that but i think getting people back to your site is amazingly hard once an opinion is formed. of course if people can make criticism which makes sense it could lead to changes, which im sure is the same for Cluas, they want their site to be the best, good idea's will most likely never be ignored


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