ooh yeah, muse....there's bits and pieces in it that are good but it's generally about as subtle as a river of puke. i enjoyed the points about innovative music been driven by technology, you should write that thesis! ;). here's the title: technological determinism :popular culture and the ethics of musical development. or some nuts like that. i doubt anything majorly new will happen though. and anyway, i tend to think that not much has. except for superficially. picture ancient barong music in bali. a bunch of percussian and bells and noises and short repeated lyrical refrains. chemical brothers anyone? or how about muse sounding operatic? it's funny- it seems that practicality and an ever increasing desire for immediacy in self gratification have fueled music also. trends in popular music have tended to move towards accomodating indiviuals. you don't an orchestra or even many people to make a loud noise these days - we,ve got laptops and distortion pedals.if soul or funl music was mostly about the groove and the message, then we can get that prety easily in hip hop. sample someone else (insead of assembly a band to stael their grooves Etc) and then preach over the top. also, the commodification of music has lead it towards structure. you need beginnings and endings and folk style refrains which reinforce the message (or story in the folk tradition) that your song carries- chorus'. they can't be too long or people will be bored and not buy your stuff. of course this kind of pop songwriting has become a fine art. this is a message board so that's all pretty sketchy. i just wanted to say that i think some people kinda missed what binokular was getting at. write a cluas article!!!

wow! ample type-o's there guys....sorry about that i'm really tired today.

quick ......call the QWERTY Police !

yeah qwerty police. i was soooo tired there. a little rambling too. if the academic approach to pop music interests you, then i recommend: Soundtracks : Popular Music, Identity and Place (Critical Geographies) by John Connell, Chris Gibson (Paperback - February 1, 2002) it's grrrreat (if you like that kind of thing, which i suspect optimus would).

Steady now son. Was there any need for all the agression? At the end of the day, I have never found Radiohead to be a positive on the music scene. I find them slow, meandering, and well, odd, and thats after trying to get into them. There's no denying they have several good songs. And that their cover of "Nobody Does It Better" is excellent. But it's not enough for me. People like to be into these sorts of arty bands because, to some degree, they think it makes them interesting. I'm sure alot of people do actually love the band and their music. But it's like the Nirvana movement. Everyone has a Nirvana record. Everyone has a Radiohead record. And I personally think that both of these bands are extremely over-rated, when you have the likes of Idlewild, Muse et al creating music that can inspire and motivate a person. I dont follow trends. Never have. So I must have been out to lunch when Radiohead became popular. But personally, I find life to be far to depressing as it stands, so I turn to my music to be uplifted. Not brought down. And I've never been uplifted by Radiohead. Now...eh...what was point.... ...oh yeah...STAY OUTTA MY BOOZE!

Well, they're not "safe" like you precious Radiohead. Radiohead are over-rated, over-paid and completely boring. Again, they're one of those bands that exemplify a trend for average people to get into and tread the waters of the other side of music. Like the Manic Street Preachers. Or Nirvana, as I have already stated. Idlewild are exciting, a little bit mental and, most importantly, FUN to listen to. Again I have to come back to my long standing feeling that the real world is depressing and morose and music should be uplifting enough to take a persons mind off it all, if only for 3 minutes of song. How are Radiohead uplifting? Radiohead is funeral music. And this is coming from a couple of experiences I've had AT funerals. I'm not saying that you're wrong to like them, unlike you saying that I'm depressed because I listen to idlewild(which is a negative statement, which makes me wrong - by your standards), but I am saying that, for such a respected and "great" band, they sure churn out endlessly repetitive songs like there's no tomorrow. Call me mad but music has taken a nosedive since the mid-90's with bands like Radiohead. Even the Manic's were good before they started following the "Radioheads instructions on how to be arty and 'deep' for a decade" novella. I find it remarkably insulting that, with all the wonder and beauty of exciting music that does exist in the world if you look for it, you choose to be immersed in the densly layered, pseudo-drowning, emotionally devoid CRAP that Radiohead pump out, when you could be listening to something far more stimulating. But hey, if listening to Radiohead makes you feel smart, then be my guest. I listen to idlewild, Guns N' Roses, even Van Halen if the mood takes me and I still know plenty of big words, just like you.

HEY..!! *makes rather stern matronly face* Now if you too can't stop bickering I'm gonna take your toys off you and put you both out in the garden to fight it out among yourselves. You're both entitled to like whatever bands you want without having to justify or explain yourselves to anyone else...so stop getting personal.....can we please restore some harmony to this board?!!!

I dont think I was getting personal. .... ok...well, maybe a pinch.

have i just read all this aghhhhhh. Idlewild have been chasing the sound of rem for years and rem have tried doing the"artry and deep" radiohead and failed miserably (up). You dont have to like them but at least prefare bands that are in the same caliber as them.If singing along with tens of thousands of people to" this is what you get when you mess with us" isnt uplifting then what is ? and i isten to guns and roses and maybe even idlewild when the mood takes me this does not make me feel thick in the same way listening to radiohead does not make me feel smart, unlike reading aloud certain threads to myself(only meant in a mild sarcastic way). ps aghhhhhhhhhhh ha ha h hahahahhajklgdshljkhd

"arty and deep" I cant spell.