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Damien Rice, the cheeky scamp!
Last Post 18 Aug 2004 10:04 AM by Binokular. 61 Replies.
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El DuderinoUser is Offline
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El Duderino

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07 Sep 2004 09:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vandala
Personally, I think he's just crap. A medicore album at best, and like all things fey and pseudo-emotional (Jim Diamond, anyone?) it caught the imagination of the middle-class coffee-table kids who buy one album a year. Worry not, it shall pass...
Now this is something I have to strongly disagree with, "middle class coffee table kids who buy one album a year"??? I liked that album a lot but that's not all I listen to and I certainly don't buy music to put on airs and graces. How can you say it's pseudo-emotional when you don't know him? There are far too many people who feel they are owed something by musicians that release their material. Ultimately the musicians only responsiblity is to be true to themselves and from a songwriting point of view I can't fault Damien Rice for this. As far as I'm concerned Damien Rice does sing songs form the heart. If that's not your cup of tea then that's fair enough however, calling into question the man's motive behind writing the material is both presumptuous and judgemental
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sarah_ukuk

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07 Sep 2004 02:17 PM
i think the b-sides album is a great idea coz i didnt got any of his singles so i was well happy when he released it, and as for the price if you go to www.play.com its £6.99 delivered so its not damien rice thats making money out of his fans it obviously the music stores putting money on top to make money, and as for the ltd edtion cd + dvd most bands (eg westlife) release two singles one standard and one ltd edtions so the buyer buys both coz they are different and anyway you don't have to buy them most online shops give you a discription on the item and the track list so you don't have to buy it so i don't know why you are all moaning! oh and while im at it calling damien rice a tosser w**ker and a c*nt is horrible im sure you all have days when people think you are a tosser, w**ker and a c*nt it called having a bad day and being human!! So why don't you all stop moaning and and get on with your sad little lifes and while your at it go to ebay and check out all the bootlegs being sold for £10 a show now thats fans selling to fans to make money so thats worth a moan instead of moaning about something that is nothing compared to that
BinokularUser is Offline
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Binokular

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07 Sep 2004 02:46 PM
6.99 = 10 Euro, O on the same site £9.99 (14.99 Euro). Relatively sepaking not too far off album price? Its all relative init? To be honest, I'm beginning to regret creating this thread, not because my opinion has changed much, but because I'm starting to feel like Dr. Frankenstein, staring in horror at monster he has just created (actually come to think of it, thats actually kinda cool and its pronounced FRONK-EN-STEEN ). I find it interesting that this topic has resulted in so many first posts too, which means you were irritated enough to come out of lurking and post on the boards. That should not be taken as a negative comment, quite the opposite, welcome to Cluas, I hope you'll stick around for the various other discussions on these boards. I do find the sheer passion that people have stuck up for Damien Rice with incredible, it reminds me of that guy from the Princess Pride who goes "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: prepare to die" and I'm afraid one of you is going to challenge me to a duel to the death, and I of course shall defend my honour in the time honoured family tradition by running away, very fast. Negative comments are made about many bands on this site but only Damien Rice and to a lesser extent The Frames provoke such a rection these days (and even the Frames fans/non-frames fans thing seems to have mellowed of late) Yes Sarah, some of us have no lives and should really find other interests besides music, spend less time in record stores/gigs, get some sunshine and fresh air. I got my quota of sunshine last weekend at electric picnic, that'll do me for another year..
GarUser is Offline
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Gar

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07 Sep 2004 02:52 PM
It's good that everybody has a passionate opinion on this matter but there's no need to verbally attack eachother. And as Binkolaur said 'Welcome to Cluas' and stick around to discuss various topics that always spring up here.
vandalaUser is Offline
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vandala

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07 Sep 2004 06:25 PM
El Duderino, Of course you're going to disagree with me: I was trying to be offensive. For God's sake, he's only a pop singer with one LP under his belt...which, once again, I THINK is mediocre: lyrically one-dimensional, sonically unchallenging and, all in all, derivative of a kind of song-writing that, for some reason, is particularly popular in Ireland. I don't doubt that certain people, such as yourself, get something from it: fair dues to you. However, to be shifting the kind of units he's doing at the moment, you simply have to tap into the mainstream market, and as the statistics amply show, they are the kind of people that buy an average of one album a year. You'll find Norah Jones, Buena Vista Social Club, etc. all making that list. As for not knowing him, I went to school with him. I had no interest in knowing him then and I still don't. He certainly doesn't owe me anything, and if he does, he can give it to charity. As for me not being entitled to call the record "pseudo emotional" without "knowing" him; anybody who has the audacity to write some of the clangers on that record (stones taught me how to die??? eskimos?!!?) and tries to convince us they're speaking from the heart deserves to be ridiculed. It's convincing, sure: its core, however, is both shallow and manipulative in my opinion. The "middle class coffee table kids" love that kind of thing...it makes them feel worthy without having to bother either investigating their relationship to the music or the emotions it supposedly envokes. Which, in short, is why I think it's crap.
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sarah_ukuk

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07 Sep 2004 07:44 PM
not meaning to sound rude i think you are talking a load of crap!!!!!
El DuderinoUser is Offline
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El Duderino

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08 Sep 2004 05:16 AM
Vandala that's cool. I can see where you are coming from now. A large portion of his fans probaly do fall in the middle class coffee table crowd. We'll have to agree to disagree about the authenticity of the emotion though
BinokularUser is Offline
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Binokular

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08 Sep 2004 07:13 AM
I only agree with Vandala up to a point, I do think that Damien Rices work is mediocre, uninteresting and thoroughly cliched. However thats where I draw the line. I really can't agree with his points about "the mainstream" (such an outdated concept) and "middle class coffee table music". First off, yes a lot of mainstream music is really dull and yes there are a lot of folk who only buy albums that look good on their coffee table, but thats not the point. I find it silly that the term "middle class" nearly always seems to be used in a negative context when discussing music, its just inverse snobbery. Lots of great bands have both appealed to and come from the middle classes, the foremost example in my mind would be The Smiths. In fact a huge proportion of the "indie" scene is middle class, theres nothing wrong with that, in fact, it can look a bit daft when a bunch of middle class boys pretend to be something their not. Mick Jagger a "street fighting man"? yeah, right... To the genuine working class, there is nothing glamourous about the harsh reality that such underprivledged circumstances bring. Like Billie Holliday, great musicians often produce great music in spite of their circumstances, not because of them. It's also unreasonable to suggest that in order to make an albums that appeal to the masses, you have to make a dull MOR album. Yes a lot of these multi-platinum albums are pretty dull, but some of them are pretty good too. Among the biggest selling albums of all time, you will find Micheal Jacksons "Thriller", Prince "Purple Rain", AC/DC "Back in Black", the Beatles "Sgt Peppers..", etc. . Even going through the albums that could be classed as MOR, you will find albums such as Fleetwood Macs "Rumours", or the Beatles "White Album", both of which are regarded by many as great albums. The quirky and original Tychonaut are huge Fleetwood Mac fans apparently. I mean, what it is "the mainstream" anyway? who cares? If its good, its good, it doesn't matter where its coming from, it's where it's at.
El DuderinoUser is Offline
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El Duderino

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08 Sep 2004 07:47 AM
I don't think the concept mainstream is out of date or ever can go out of date. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it's a term to describe any music that's selling units at a particular time. You make some good points about the whole class thing being bulls**t and I agree that it should not be used against somebody. Nobody can help what set the are born into. Now I can't talk for Vandala but the reason I agreed with this point is because I see it as an observation rather than a biased point of view. An overwhelming proportion of the "diehard" Damien Rice or whatever fans do seem to come from the ranks of the middle class and it's pretty much always been the way. How else could you account for ocean colour scene's success (a few years back obviously). This whole argument really makes me wonder how long Damien Rice will be around for. It's a simple fact that the more popular a musician gets the less the original crowd that discovered them seem to like them. If the bulk of his fan base are the middle class coffee table crowd he's got about another 2 years at the top of his game at most. I personnally think he's worth more than that but all will be revealed in the near future
Rev JulesUser is Offline
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Rev Jules

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08 Sep 2004 08:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by El Duderino
Originally posted by vandala
it caught the imagination of the middle-class coffee-table kids who buy one album a year.
Has anyone else noticed that the lined covered cd case for 'O' can be used as a really good beermat ? It certainly keeps my coffee table free from stains.
BinokularUser is Offline
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Binokular

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08 Sep 2004 08:26 AM
An absorbent rather than absorbing album then?
Rev JulesUser is Offline
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Rev Jules

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08 Sep 2004 08:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Binokular
An absorbent rather than absorbing album then?
Oh, definitely Herr Docktor !
jmc105User is Offline
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jmc105

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08 Sep 2004 09:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vandala
..."stones taught me how to die???" ...The "middle class coffee table kids" love that kind of thing...it makes them feel worthy without having to bother either investigating their relationship to the music or the emotions it supposedly envokes...
actually it was life that taught our damo to die. stones, naturally, taught him to fly. as for your sweeping generalisations about some kind of coffee-table-worshipping class of 'kids' who have a quota of one (convincing yet shallow and manipulative) album per year, i'd love to know how you carried out your research! why do these people buy albums to make themselves feel "worthy"? worthy of what? of their coffee-tables? and why do they only buy one album per year - surely if one makes them feel worthy, then ten would make them feel like some kind of supreme, all-knowing coffee-table being? and if emotions are only supposedly evoked, can they in fact be investigated? and if the blowers daughter is played in the middle of a forest and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound? just for the record (no pun intended, ha ha), i think "o" is extremely interesting sonically. from the use of strings on 'amie' to the layers of sounds built up in 'cheers darlin', the operatic sweep of 'eskimo' to the simplicity of 'delicate' and 'older chests', the intricate counterpoint at the end of 'volcano' to the rawness of the hidden track 'prague', the album is consistently interesting to listen to. the sincerity of the performance is what redeems lyrics like the ones referred to in cannonball above - i wasn't surprised to learn that damien rice abandoned the idea of scheduled studio recording in favour of a mobile studio that he could use to record any given song when he felt like recording it (part of the reason for the length of time it took to produce the album). i'll also never forget the intensity of the gig i saw in dolan's a couple of years ago where damo played solo, striding onstage singing 'fool' with more anger and passion than any gig i've seen before or since and somehow maintaining that level of performance for the whole gig. shallow? pseudo-emotional? i don't think so. as for his songwriting being derivative - personally i think that simplicity is perhaps the hardest thing to convincingly achieve. there's no doubt that a song like 'delicate' is far from ground-breaking, but in my opinion that doesn't prevent it from being a truly beautiful song. vandala, if you don't like his music, that's fair enough. but your opinion of damien rice, or any other artist, is simply a statement about yourself - it can never form the basis for an assessment of anybody else's character.
Rev JulesUser is Offline
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Rev Jules

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08 Sep 2004 09:10 AM
Ok guys, all joking aside, Cluas is looking for contributors for our new Op-Ed features section. We have already thrown out suggestions to the writers pool and are looking for both responses + fresh ideas. The discussion boards are a great place to slug things out but if one of you is able to write a coherant intelligent Op-Ed piece which is either for or against Rice then send it to me and I'll look at it for the section. Yours Jules
jmc105User is Offline
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jmc105

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08 Sep 2004 09:20 AM
coherence AND intelligence might be asking a bit much but... how many words would you be looking for?
Rev JulesUser is Offline
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Rev Jules

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08 Sep 2004 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jmc105
coherence AND intelligence might be asking a bit much but... how many words would you be looking for?
Dear jmc105, Have emailed you details for above to your jayboy account. best Jules
milkyUser is Offline
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milky

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08 Sep 2004 02:37 PM
jmc105 i couldnt have responded any better myself so now i will not attempt to, i shall so congratulate u on ur comments and sitback and enjoy my water i dnt like coffee!
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Anna Murray

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08 Sep 2004 04:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by El Duderino
I don't think the concept mainstream is out of date or ever can go out of date.
Sorry I haven't really been involved in this discussion but that little bit caught my eye. Mainstream really means absolutely nothing. It has no real connotations or any kind of defining characteristics. It's just a way of saying if somethings "popular" or not.
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Ian Wright

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08 Sep 2004 09:35 PM
Regarding Damien Rice's crossover into "the mainstream" it should be pointed out that of the million odd copies of O that he has shifted 700,000 of those were in the US, a nation of 250,000,000 people, it's not even gold there (here it's triple platinum so I'll accept the mainstream point for Ireland only, in the UK it went gold in the last 2 months) so to describe him as a crossover musician is in my opinion a fallacy, the parochial view might lead you to believe that but in a wider context he's simply released a very successful indie record.
Rev JulesUser is Offline
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09 Sep 2004 10:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Unicron
Regarding Damien Rice's crossover into "the mainstream" it should be pointed out that of the million odd copies of O that he has shifted 700,000 of those were in the US, a nation of 250,000,000 people...the parochial view might lead you to believe that but in a wider context he's simply released a very successful indie record.
The Thrills have sold a million copies of their debut too. For a counterpoint to that, Cheeky Girls did 1.4 million copies of 'Touch My Bum'. They are also regarded as an indie act. Is sales of one million the new indie theshhold
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