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Last Post 1/6/2005 1:29 PM by  Vent My Spleen
CLUAS Opinion: Whelans
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Vent My Spleen
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1/6/2005 1:29 PM
    Post your comments here on the latest CLUAS Opinion piece in which CLUAS writer Gareth Maher casts a critical eye over Dublin venue Whelans. I'd expect everyone has plenty to say on this one! Check it out here: http://www.cluas.com/opinion/whelans_scene.htm
    klootfan
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    1/6/2005 2:27 PM
    I really enjoyed that piece on whelans. I can relate to pretty much every point made. Lately the DJs just dont seem to care in whelans. They seem to play the same predefined setlist every night. Long gone are the days when you could make a request. There is a bouncer placed at the desk to prevent requests these days. And it is rubbish that whelans would allow people like mickey joe and mcfadden use whelans to convey a false "indie" image on themselves. I still like whelans but these days i head to the small venue below the oak/thomas reeds. a nice crowd and they play the music whelans should be playing. Plus its free.
    Mully
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    1/6/2005 2:42 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by klootfan
    And it is rubbish that whelans would allow people like mickey joe and mcfadden use whelans to convey a false "indie" image on themselves.
    Now Now, Dont be lobbing Mickey Harte in with the clown BrYan Mickey is a singer-songwriter who has as much right as Paddy Casey or Mundy to be playing whelans. He knows the Eurovision was a poisoned chalice, but he took the chance, as a way of getting his name, & songs out there. He never wanted to do that song, he knew it was s**t, but it was written into the contract. As for being 'Indie', what is Independent these days, except for unsigned acts putting out their own stuff themselves. I reckon Mickey was just looking to play a venue that is held in high esteem by the musicians he respects & is a fan of. I've only heard Mickey Harte on the first Even Better Than The Real Thing CD doing a cover, but I've alot of time for him, cos he put an intelligent twist on a played-to-death pop song. Steve Wall was on You're A Star, offering the kids advice. Should his band be stopped from playing Whelans ....
    john@soundweb.ie
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    1/6/2005 2:47 PM
    hey Eoghan, i'm back! (sorry folks, private in-joke there) good article, long overdue i reckon. i thought it was just me gettin auld but it's not the night it used to be. the predefined setlist hasn't changed in yonks. having said that, its been a while since my last visit...and i agree with Kloot, READS downstairs is cool.
    klootfan
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    1/6/2005 2:57 PM
    Mully, i disagree with you on Micky Joe. By choosing to take the short cut trying to win "your a star" he lost all credibility. "Your a star" is for people who want to be famous. Full stuff. Anyone with an ounce of credibility would have nothing to do with the show. If he wanted to be taken seriously then why didnt he go the hard route of giging around and making a name for himself ? No one in ireland has ever launched a successful career after winning the eurovision, what made him think he was any different. He cant go complaining now that people wont take him seriously because he only went on the show to kick start his career. He has made his bed and now he can sleep in it ( that is how the phrase goes, isnt it..duno)
    Pilchard
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    1/6/2005 3:01 PM
    Nice piece (actually the Opinion strand is the best thing about Cluas right now). The best point is the final para - a venue is only as good as the acts on its stage. Whelans held the crown for so long because thats where those bands/singersongwriters went to play. The way is clear for other venues to make an impact provided the bands they book are good enough to pull a decent crowd. I like the size of crawdaddy but i've yet to see a local act there that i didnt alredy see somewhere else. as for the WLC, can we not just call Kevin Street garda station next saturday night and put an end to it once and for all? i'd like to see the ugly mutt from turn and smiley glen hansard and that mundy eejit behind bars for a while on another note - and apoligies cos i am dublin-based - whats the scene like around the country for new bands? I know of some venues like the high stool in limerick but have most of the venues just started booking poxy singersongwriters or are there still some who'll take a chance on bands and local acts?
    Cozpyro
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    1/6/2005 3:51 PM
    To be honest Whelans needs to do a lot more than change the act's it books. More often than not the sound is appalling. Any one who arrives late for the gig doesn't see the gig. I've never really understood what the attraction was to the place. Perhaps there was once a time when it really was the place to be but as far as I can make out it's heyday is long gone. Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of venues with the same problems as above but none of them profess to be "The" Venue. My tuppence.
    Mully
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    1/6/2005 3:56 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by klootfan
    If he wanted to be taken seriously then why didnt he go the hard route of giging around and making a name for himself ?
    Maybe because its hard ...
    quote:

    No one in ireland has ever launched a successful career after winning the eurovision, what made him think he was any different.
    I think Johnny Logan may have something to say about that
    Karlito
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    1/6/2005 4:00 PM
    I must say I agree with the points made above. I went back to Whelans for the first time in abut 2 years there, a couple of months ago, walked in after some band was playing (can't remember who) and then the usual music from the "DJ" started playing, I mean whats the story? Does the dude just make a couple of compilation CD's and stick them on every week for the last couple of years, other than the odd Frames track or some other new track thrown in at the start ii's horrible. As and for bands playing th e actual venue, I saw Fly Pan Am there a few weeks before Christmas and they kicked ass, but to a seriously depleted crowd compared to what is normally there, there was no atmosphere and I left straight after the gig. As for WLC, I have never noticed these people in the pub, but then again I was achieving what I was going there to do, get drunk (not messy drunk) and have a laugh, so not bothered with whose there or not
    Daragh
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    1/6/2005 7:07 PM
    good article all right, definitely agree about the image of the place, i've only been there a few times (and all recently) and i was very disappointed, compared to what i'd heard, definitely too much of a "cool/place to be" attitude, the DJ also played the same song a few times in the night, hate that, (plenty of good tunes to go round!) on the other hand, up until recently, Whelans Off License was 1 of only 2 (other way too expensive) places to buy a bottle of Captain Morgans spiced rum, so no quibbles there!
    cwrenn
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    1/7/2005 3:16 AM
    People,you're living in the past!!!get over it!you're supposed to move on,grow up,find other places,leave whelans for the new generation,who've never heard lovecats before,and get tingles when they hear an old(what some us may consider jaded)classic for the first time...i know a lot of hipper places that have the same music policy every week too...the bouncer is actually at the dj box to enable floor staff put drinks up on the bar without being blocked...i've met so many great people in whelans over the years,both staff and patrons,i think it's a unique vibe still,theres a lot less aggro there than in most places...as for the "WLC",jesus lads,practically every pub in dublin has a lock-in(dorans has a lock in too y'know, with the sainted ROL holding fort,its not very different to whelans,and i've been there when huey's in town,and boy does it get messy...so what if musicians want to have a drink together,so what if they're having after hours drinks like probably a quarter of the nation..are they hurting anyone?there's more important things to get worked up about in the music industry quite frankly,than who has late drinks where...
    flipperstired
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    1/7/2005 5:27 AM
    I think the whole "scene" has changed so much in the past ten years. I remember when Engine Alley Versus Peach was going on (anyone remember either of them!!?) in kinda 93/94 ... the buzz of going to Whelans or Slatterys... two super venues at the time.... I think the people were different, i think the music was different, even the pints tasted different. Things were in pounds and a euro was a prefix only for the word cup!! IN fact, even the euro cup was different!! Sound like i am waffling now... what am trying to say is... the "mood" out there i think is different now and yes its bound to be but has alot of the mystery or romance not gone from those venues? Times DO move on but Whelans once upon a time stood above the rest for me and now it seem the whole unique feeling of playing there has left... it used to mean that you had "made serious progress" if you played there... now anyone seems to, as is there right, but its lost its edge. Ironic the the Village appears, for me anyway, to have captured some of that romance in "moments" in 2004. Only thing i dont quite agree with you on Gar is the Crawdaddy bit... and this is personal again, i actually hate that venue, maybe its the low ceiling on ground level or the claustraphobic feel to the place but not for me... but that brings you back to your point... where are the super venues now!? God its near 6am and i hope I am talking sense or at least making the point felt!! Night all!
    bonzo
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    1/7/2005 9:09 AM
    The owners of Whelan's don't owe it to anyone to change how the venue is run. They can run the venue as they see fit. We can decide not to go there if we want. Good piece though. As for the WLC - don't get me stated!
    loserbrian
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    1/7/2005 9:35 AM
    The majority of posts are all basically saying "oh in my day it was so much cooler" everything gets a little stale when youve done it before. We cant feel like we are 18 when we are 25. I accept that the music is on rotation but f**k it its better than most other places. I accept that there is a WLC but Id love to be drinking in there till 6 in the morning so fair play. I dont think the WLC get any kind of worship from the punters in whelans everyone is there to get drunk while having a bit of a dance and hopefully get laid. No one is autograph hunting for gods sake. Venue wise i think Whelans is great. The sound can be dodgy but a good sound engineer makes the sound really nice and like eveywhere else it depends on where you are standing. I saw biffy cyro and Sack there over the last while and the sound was excellent. The place was full and the atmosphere was excellent both nights. IF the bands you used to go and see are no longer pulling crowds maybe thats there fault and not whelans. I also love playing there I think its intimate, you can see the whites of peoples eyes and you are aware of the greats who have played on that stage over the years.
    Gar
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    1/7/2005 9:56 AM
    The point in writing the article was to evoke opinions from Cluas members, and maybe others who want to have their say. It seems to have worked with many good points raised here. So cheers for reading it and don't stop debating.
    aidan
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    1/7/2005 10:04 AM
    nice one, gar. I think whelans has gone downhill for sure - perhaps it's because it hosts mainly acoustic singer-singers who tend to make up the self-congratulatory and conservative lock-in crowd - less rockin' and glammin' and electricity, too much introspection and aloofness. It's getting more and more rare to see a full-on plugged-in band there. whelan's is now synonymous with tom dunne's radio show and one fairly narrow sub-genre of music.... but that's the fashion at the moment, I suppose. If it makes money for the venue, I can't see them changing until the next bandwagon rolls down wexford street... it's a shame, because gigs are usually less expensive there. crawdaddy has great and diverse acts (especially 'world' music acts) but usually a bit steep price-wise. and yes, the djs there haven't bought a new record in ten years!
    Punchbowl
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    1/7/2005 11:01 AM
    I don't think we can blame the musicians who ply their trade there. Whelans has always been ' eclectic' when it comes to it's artists from Indie to traditional and regardless of Micky Joe and Fatso McFadden it won't lose that rep soon, simply because it can't afford to. There's no danger of the pop kids invading here.. What really bothers me about Whelans is the way it's run. Call me an old fogey, but comfort is something I enjoy on a night out. Whe I spend €5.00 on a bottle of beer I at least want is a bit of room to move around, maybe a bit of a seat too.. But to be crammed in, in possibly illegal amounts and having to constantly negotiate drunks and broken glass is not what I call a great time. Do youself a favour, go to Solas or Anseo instead.
    John Doe
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    1/7/2005 1:48 PM
    Hmmmmm. For a start, I should probably point out that I'm an old fart who was going to gigs on the Dublin scene long before Whelans had established itself. In my day the Underground on Dame Street ( now a strip club ) and the extent Baggot Inn were the "cool" venues to be in and I spent a large portion of the mid - Eighties / early Nineties attneding gigs at both. I particularly loved the Baggot and little piece of my rock 'n roll soul died when they closed them down. :D I can remember the same arguments back then about the Underground - it's cliquey, it's lost it's roots etc. I feel the same now about Whelans as I did then about the Baggot. I think it's a smashing venue, with a great atmosphere most of the time. My experiences of The Village so far have all been negative, appalling sound and all the atmosphere of an underground car park. The Hub is not bad although I've only seen a handful of acts there. The fact that McFadden ( spit ) played Whelans is irrelevant - one mutt doesn't make the place a pop hell. The argument about the DJ is fair enough, but let's not forget that Whelans is first and foremost a live venue and should be judged on it's merits. I saw Sack and support band Chuzzle just before Xmas and I can safely say it was one of the best gigs I've ever seen. Both bands have great frontmen who really connect with the audience and Whelans was the perfect venue for them. The sound was excellent in my opinion and the atmosphere was first rate. As long as it keeps playing host to bands like that Whelans will remain my favourite venue. And the argument about the WLC is also irrelevant. There's ALWAYS been cliques in the Dublin music scene ( just as I'm sure there is in London / New York / Paris / Munich etc. ) and always will be. I've never taken any of them seriously and never will. Incidentally, someone earlier made a comment about CBGBs selling t-shirts...as if that was some mark of shame. Name me one band who don't try to sell merchandise ? Last year I went to see a struggling Dublin band who had t-shirts to sell and I was happy enough to buy one. It's all part of the fun folks. I was lucky enough to visit New York, went to CBGBs one night and for all it's fame, it was exactly what I'd hoped for....a cramped, sweaty kip with a horde of unknowns on stage trying to impress the crowd. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what a rock venue should be ?
    Gar
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    1/7/2005 2:32 PM
    Alot of people are getting worked up over the piece, thats good. I was merely highlighting points in the article and people shouldn't take it so personally. I'll still be going to gigs in Whelan's throughout this year.
    elle
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    1/7/2005 10:23 PM
    Interesting article. Have to say it mentioned quite a lot of things which I've been feeling about whelans myself over the past while. I agree though that the playlist has been the same for the past 5yrs at least, thats not what bothers me. All of a sudden it's cool to like indie music and or whatever and the entire scene has changed. Ok so i used to be a typical predictable whelans head, just kinda fell in with the right people there i suppose, nice staff, great venue for gigs, good music, good craic. Couldn't understand how people could not like the place. Over the past yr or so, maybe longer, I've started to notice why some people just cannot stand the place. The crowd has changed, especially on a fri/sat you might as well be in f**king Q bar, for the amount of mini skirts and alcopops floating around the place. The WLC are just as bad. Not a bad bunch of people, but just seems that over the past while they've turned into a bunch of media whores. I was at a gig a while back and the lead singer turned around and told the crowd that the band would be drinking up in whelans after so they'd see everyone there for a pint. Now I know it's major business for the pub but in fairness the majority of the crowd were just going to rub shoulders with the 'whelans elite'! Certain other member of said crowd are renowned for turning up on the busiest night of the week knowing they'll be 'mobbed' by adoring fans (being so famous and all), then spend the entire night complaining about how difficult it is being so famous, yet doing it in order to guarantee they'll get laid that night, by inviting some thick groupie back to one of whelans many infamous lock ins. I've been drifting away from the whole whelans scene for a while now, something I never thought would happen but it just seems that its the same people talking the same bulls**t, trying to outdo each other with their expertise on the irish music scene or mingling with major celebs like hansard and casey. Getting out of that circle has just really opened my eyes and made me realise that there is actually life beyond whelans.The brian mcfadden thing was a hige mistake, it lost them a hell of a lot of money and even more respect frm regulars. It just seems to me that whelans is totally selling out. I mean with all these new venues popping up(crawdaddy etc) they should be trying to hang on to whatever it was that attracted people to whelans in the first place. I dunno if its too late or what but i just think give it another few yrs and whelans will just be another pub, whatever music rep it had will be totally abandoned. Sorry for ranting on,I'm sure there are plenty of people who think i am talking utter b****x but there's my thoughts on the subject anyway.x
    Binokular
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    1/7/2005 11:02 PM
    Nicely balanced article that wisely didn't dwell too much on the lock-in crowd issue but instead focused on stuff that was genuinely relevant. However what really worries me isn't whether Whelans is going downhill or not, I've never even set foot in the place, given my allergy to the capital. No what really worries me is that the venue itself is seen as the axis around which Irish music revolves. Bands do need a nice place to play, but at the end of the day it's just a room, it's not worth saving (if it needs saving that is). I don't think we should get too hung up about it, the important thing is that decent venues exist. Perhaps we should really be focusing on having our music scenes based around artistic ideas rather than a street address?
    Unicron
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    1/8/2005 9:25 PM
    I don't get the whole idea of Whelans being a musical mecca, I'll admit that I'm there a lot for gigs because its not a massive place and many of the acts that I like aren't going to draw big numbers but I hardly ever socialise there at times when there isn't a gig on, too many haircuts. Those that have met me might find it strange that I said that considering how I wear my hair but you know what I mean. I hate Crawdaddy though (despite that I've seen some really good gigs there), except for the cute dark haired girl that works behind the bar.
    Gar
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    1/8/2005 9:49 PM
    And don't forget about the sexy blonde behind the bar in Voodoo
    The Wetebix Man
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    1/8/2005 9:55 PM
    jesus what the f**k is wrong with you all? I go to Whelans because it plays the same music. Are you saying the Whelans dj was playing Razorlight years ago? Fair play to him, and the Strokes? I actually heard "drowning pool" by the Walls there a few weeks ago, great song. so your either very wrong or he's a genius??? oh and the place is so bad its always crowded? explain that one? personally I can't dance so im not complaining that the dance floor is always packed because i'd look really funny jumping around the place. As for the lock -in's Paddy Casey was playing gigs in whelans years ago to twenty people as was the Frames and Mundy. Damien Dempsey.still bangs out a few tunes on sundays i think you'd be giving them a hard time if they refused to drink in the bar where they started off . I can tell you the dj was playing the stone roses ten years ago when every other venue was playing dance music. whelans stuck to their guns. fair play. I've actually argued with the dj before and got him to play Perl Jam for me ...he was right the dance floor did clear, i guess he knows what he's doing which is explained was playing background music while people had a drink ....his words. he said he wasn't trying to change anybodys religion and was just playing what everybody asked him in some sort of order that made it easy on the ear ....In my opinion if you can't offer something better then shut up. And as for the writers point of hearing great music for the first time ....why should younger people not have the chance to hear the classics too .....or should they be shunned to the likes of fat westlife rejects ???
    flipperstired
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    1/8/2005 11:31 PM
    nothing wrong with us Wetebix man...or you... we're just voicing opinions, we cant ALL be wrong about the fact that Whelan's is obviously not giving off the same air as it used to however. People change and move or don't move with the times and i personally feel that Whelans is allowing itself to be left behind a little.... or maybe just resting on Laurel's of a really good name. Thats all from me, goodnight!
    Gar
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    1/8/2005 11:41 PM
    Again I stress it is an opinion piece and people shouldn't get so worked up. Please read the whole thing before trying to quote it, and please do voice your opinion on these boards but not so angrily as I wasn't attacking anyone. Plus I never mentioned names in the WLC. I still go to gigs there and will do throughout the year. I was merely raising a point of view about the venue as a whole, in the Opinion section.
    Eoin
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    1/9/2005 7:20 PM
    I would agree wholeheartedly with every point made in the article. It is my opinion that there are really no good venues of that size in Dublin these days. In the Hub there are pillars everywhere and you cant see f**k all, Dorans is the biggest f**king dive on earth let alone Ireland ! The Crawdaddy I have only been to once so I'll reserve judgement cept to saw it didnt blow me away. The Village is alright, any gig I've been to there the sound has been spot on. I though the Voodoo was ok the couple of times I've been in it ! As for Whelans its been a fair few years since I've gone there to do anything other than to see a band, afterwards its usually down to Hogans or maybe Bruxelles for pints. As for the WLC, why shouldnt we call the guards and rat em up ! f**k it, that s**t they play dont mean a thing to me. They do have a strangle hold of sorts over the music sceane in this city whatever you say, and there are a hell of a lot more people responsible than just them for it ie. Hotpress to name 1), its all very un-rock in roll to me so I suggest we do something about it, its all very well talking on this forum but we need action people ! rise up ! dial 11811, ask for the number of Kevin Street Garda shop and at least cause a bit of a stir ! Shake them from their comfort zone ! Do it in the name of rock n roll, even PUNK rock, do it for whever youre into ! do it in the spirit of The Sex Pistols, The Ramones, The Clash or whoever, heck do it for yerself ! heck it'd be a laugh at least !
    Gar
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    1/9/2005 9:02 PM
    I don't think anyone should ring Kevin Street Garda Station. I merely highlighted points in my article. I don't want to ruin someone's evening or certainly turn people against artists who hang out in Whelan's. Alot of people seem to be taking some of the points I made out of context. At least, opinions are erupting.
    flipperstired
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    1/9/2005 10:16 PM
    i feel another opinion poll closure coming on!! Eoghan has spanked our asses before remember!
    Eoin
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    1/10/2005 12:13 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Gar
    I don't think anyone should ring Kevin Street Garda Station. I merely highlighted points in my article. I don't want to ruin someone's evening or certainly turn people against artists who hang out in Whelan's. Alot of people seem to be taking some of the points I made out of context. At least, opinions are erupting.
    how could I sleep if I deprived Geary, Mundy, Hansard & Casey a good evening, a late pint and a sence of ownership over all that they see ? well very easily is the answer to that one ! ha ! seriously though Gar, its an excellent article and as I said b4 i agree with every point you make but at the end of the day its action rather than words that will sort it. But for me its really nice to see a debate like this and cool that so many of us seem to be on a common wavelength ! the backlash has begun ! pls remember action people ! all the best ! EOin x
    Pilchard
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    1/10/2005 9:54 AM
    *** Edited by Moderator **** kevin st garda station 01 XXXXXXX wait until the next geary gig to do it..... **** Moderator ***** Seriously people, can we knock it off with the 'Ring Kevin Street Garda' thread. Bear in mind that Cluas has a long association with Whelans (various charity gigs where the kindly donated the venue for free). Anymore and I will lock this thread.
    flipperstired
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    1/10/2005 12:13 PM
    see... i's can predict da future! mi's new d'occupation has been founnnnnd mon
    Pilchard
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    1/10/2005 12:38 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Pilchard
    *** Edited by Moderator **** kevin st garda station 01 XXXXXXX wait until the next geary gig to do it..... **** Moderator ***** Seriously people, can we knock it off with the 'Ring Kevin Street Garda' thread. Bear in mind that Cluas has a long association with Whelans (various charity gigs where the kindly donated the venue for free). Anymore and I will lock this thread.
    jesus, i feel like i am back in school and have just been slapped on the ear by my old irish teacher surely, people can make up their own mind about this kind of thing?? but i've seen this happening a few times on cluas. it appears that u are entitled to your own opinion as long as everyone else agrees with it
    flipperstired
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    1/10/2005 2:44 PM
    In fairness Piltchard the phone number might have been a step to far!! last one i saw locked down on this was the farce about the olympia and people not bein who they say they were which was a load of balls.. its good debate though, and we both agree that Whelans is not what it was right? And the majority of the room agrees. That does not make us wrong or right it just means that we are all feeding off a similar vibe right?... if there are any garda who read this post i think the cover is blown by now anyway!!! lol
    Eoin
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    1/10/2005 2:54 PM
    haha, oh well, the revolution is over, quashed by a couple of clicks of the mouse by flipperstired. Ah well ....
    The Wetebix Man
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    1/10/2005 3:05 PM
    Ah in honest i think fair play to the article, but it offers nothing, its just knocking....the good ould irish way of doing things. whelans could just as easy be turned into a spar shop and its only because of a few people in there that the place still holds onto what it has and always has. Good people not taking the world too seriously. its owned by someone who's not me so i have no say in what happens in whelans, the only thing i can do is not go there if im fed up with it. so what time will i see you in Flanerys at on saturday night ..or are you all going to coppers this week? all i can say is thanks to whelans for all the good times.can't believe they are still playing after all by the frank and walters ....classic pop
    klootfan
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    1/10/2005 3:22 PM
    If people feel that something is wrong with whelans then why cant they comment on it. Its not like whelans are letting you in for free and throwing out free drink. People pay money to get into the club and pay not insignificant amounts for drink. Its a product that whelans are offering and as far as im concerned, if the product degrades in quality then ive a right to say something about it. Especially when ive been a loyal customer of the product.
    Pilchard
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    1/10/2005 3:36 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by flipperstired
    In fairness Piltchard the phone number might have been a step to far!! last one i saw locked down on this was the farce about the olympia and people not bein who they say they were which was a load of balls.. its good debate though, and we both agree that Whelans is not what it was right? And the majority of the room agrees. That does not make us wrong or right it just means that we are all feeding off a similar vibe right?... if there are any garda who read this post i think the cover is blown by now anyway!!! lol
    yes flipper u are right. i was just a little surprised to see my mail censored like that - especially when it contained information which is very easy to get at www.goldenpages.ie or by actually picking up the phone book i personally couldnt give two hoots about the WLC - i cant stand the music most of them make and I certainly would not care to stand in the same room as them at 4am. by all accounts, its fairly innocent - there are no goats sacrified. they drink, they play paddy casey songs, they tell jokes, they fart and they all try to get off with the same girl. there is an occasional outburst of glen hansard worshiping but nothing we havent seen before i cannot remember who said this already but ALL scenes and venues go thru this. it happened with the underground, it happened with the baggot, it happened with the funnel, it happened with the new inn and it happened with the white horse/attic and it will happen again at another venue in the future. its kind of a logical life cycle - kids in bands are coming up, they want somewhere to play, they can't get into the established venues because of the bed-blockers so they go off and establish their own haunts, in a few years time, X will be the new whelans and a whole new contingent of cluasers will be giving out yards about it, while the rest of us give out about how it wasnt like this back when mark geary was king, or something me, i'll be in whelans next week to check out bloc party, as long as its housing decent gigs, i'll be there. though i might give the guards in kevin st a shout when i'm going home
    Gar
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    1/10/2005 4:17 PM
    I resent what 'The Wetebix Man' said in 'fair play to the article, but it offers nothing, it is just knocking.....the good ould Irish ways of doing things'. Again PLEASE READ the article before making statements like this one. I merely highlighted points, issues and trends involoved with the scene built up around Whelan's. I have not mentioned any names of the WLC (I'd also like to point out that I mentioned this to Mark Geary in an interview and he assured me that he'd rather be at home than hanging out in Whelan's the whole time. So do not peg him down as part of the WLC), I have not knocked them for drinking there but for exploiting the reputation that the venue once had or maybe still does. I post on this discussion board because opinions are expressed in a manner that is acceptable and debatable at the same time. Rarely does a poster step beyond the border of verbally abusing anotehr member or trying to cause trouble. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion but please do not try and evoke action that might damage someone's character. The whole let's-ring-kevin street garda-and-spoil-their-fun business is getting a bit childish at this stage. Maybe I should've left the WLC paragraph out. I wouldn't like it if someone wrote and article slating my local, then another person decided to act upon that and report the pub to which my local might close or lose alot of business. What I'm saying is, have your opinion and express it, but do not take action just because you don't like Paddy Casey's music or the fact that other people like hanging out with Glen Hansard. Nobody has mentioned the proposal of getting various other unsigned Irish acts to play in better venues. Must we always go to the dark pits of Dorans to discover new garage/indie/rock acts? My article does not condemn Whelan's nor does it state that we should all abandon it. I will still go to Whelan's for a long time to come, as alot of good gigs are on there, but I stated my point about what the venue was and is now in the article. The best thing about writing the article is that it has brought about some excitement on this board that has been missing for a long time. Can we not keep up this enegry and discuss other areas of the site? Nobody has mentioned Brian's interview with the 'Trashcan Sintara's', or discussed the results of Cluas Writers/Readers Poll in depth, or the Rachel Loshak interview done by Triona, or the last batch of live reviews or even the new batch of album reviews. Cluas needs your opinions and the writers who submit these pieces, out of their own time-money-effort, deserve a little bit more feedback. And before anybody tries to twist this into a 'me' thing, its not as there are plenty of other writers here who write well and that's who I am referring to. .....Big Sigh..... Cheers, Gar
    klootfan
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    1/10/2005 4:44 PM
    Well said Gar. On a side note. Is that Bloc party gig sold out. Reading peoples comments on them prompted me to investigate and i like what i found. TM dont seem to be selling anymore tickets but that might not mean its sold out
    Gar
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    1/10/2005 4:50 PM
    Yeah mcd.ie states its sold out. I want tickets myself so if ya come across any, I'll buy one off ya. Bloc Party are really good and reckon they might be one of the big early surprises, not that surprising since their gig is sold out. Hopefully they switch to a different venue and sell more tickets.
    Eoin
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    1/10/2005 7:53 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by klootfan
    If people feel that something is wrong with whelans then why cant they comment on it. Its not like whelans are letting you in for free and throwing out free drink. People pay money to get into the club and pay not insignificant amounts for drink. Its a product that whelans are offering and as far as im concerned, if the product degrades in quality then ive a right to say something about it. Especially when ive been a loyal customer of the product.
    100% agree with that, we pay our money so why shouldnt we have our say. And on another note its not as if the phone number for Kevin St. Garda Station is hard to come by and if somone wants badly enough to make a complaint about unlawful goins on at Whelans then they will, censoring from moderators on this forum will not stop that ! anyway like Gar says this article has been god especially for provoking an interesting debate and I think the whole Kevin Street garda thing is a bit tongue in cheek from where I'm sitting anyway, jeasus they way some of yous reacted to that you'd think yis had shares in the place !
    flipperstired
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    1/10/2005 10:13 PM
    did anybody see the gardening programme on BBC2 the other day with that garden in wiltononfoxhamplaceshire.. was fascainating! lol... next topic please!! Cheers Gar.. good stuff... sincerely, good stuff.
    Gar
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    1/10/2005 10:26 PM
    Cheers...I appreicate all the comments made even if it doesn't come across like that.
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    1/11/2005 12:26 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by flipperstired
    did anybody see the gardening programme on BBC2 the other day with that garden in wiltononfoxhamplaceshire.. was fascainating! lol... next topic please!! Cheers Gar.. good stuff... sincerely, good stuff.
    change the subject you mean ? ok sir whatever you say !
    flipperstired
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    1/11/2005 2:37 AM
    ah eoin was just bein diplomatic... sorry didnt mean to be smart!
    Eoin
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    1/11/2005 11:03 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by flipperstired
    ah eoin was just bein diplomatic... sorry didnt mean to be smart!
    Ah I know ya were, should have made reply more sarcastic meself though !
    kierry
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    1/11/2005 12:13 PM
    fair play to the piece for creating this reaction and discussion! and, like, the writer too, obviously... i don't think i could care this much about any business designed to take money off me, and seriously, who cares if people stay late getting pissed in a pub? doesn't bother me....
    Gar
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    1/11/2005 1:46 PM
    Again, I was just highlighting all these various points in the piece. It doesn't bother me where certain artists drink, I used it to back up another point -of the artists exploiting the venue. And if Whelan's does good or bad business, it doesn't bother me in the slightest...as long as they book decent acts. If not then I will go to another venue. The article wasn't an attack...just an opinion piece. Cheers Kierry for the words though. And this is the last time I am explaining the article, I swear!!!!
    sweetie
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    1/11/2005 3:29 PM
    I've been going to Whelans for years both as a punter and also djed there on a few occasions. Some of my favourite memories, like seeing wilco for the first time and playing guitar on-stage with them, are associated with Whelans. I'm not a fan of some of the singer songwriter brigade that play there but they pull in the punters and some of the more obscure bands that I've seen there haven't. I have to point out that the dj on friday and saturday is required to play 'the best indie album in the world ever' kind of set because that is what the crowd expects but thursday nights with john walshe (going underground-fm104) are ace and wednesdays (f**k em if they can't take a joke) give the dj carte blanche to choose what they like. Having played a couple of fridays there myself I have to say that it is surprising what tunes people don't get and what they do and if you try to be adventurous and fail it can backfire on you. Dj's generally don't mind playing requests but don't appreciate it if the people are very drunk, intimidating or are looking for a big change in tempo. I played in isaac butts for a while before they closed down for the makeover (opeing in march/april I believe) and it wasn't very enjoyable playing great alternative tunes to three people and a dog. Hopefully some of ye guys will check it out when it returns! regards, sweetie
    Eoin
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    1/11/2005 5:58 PM
    bloddy hell ! you played guitar with Wilco, how cool, I'd give my left arm to play guitar with that band ! well obviously not as then I wouldnt be able to play guitar but you get the idea . Despite being in my 5 favourite bands ever I have still not been able to get to see em live yet
    Gar
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    1/11/2005 6:11 PM
    They played a kickin set at Oxegen last year. Hopefully they'll return over the coming months for a gig.
    amawaster
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    1/11/2005 8:37 PM
    unfortunately dont think they will be they have dates in manchester, london and barcelona lined up soon, mini-tour, so doubt they'll be here soon anyway
    stroller
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    1/12/2005 4:33 AM
    Don't blame the DJs for playing the same tunes every night, blame the punters who only dance to songs they know and who desert the floor every time they hear something even slightly unfamiliar. I DJ at three indie nights a week and my two biggest guaranteed floor fillers of last year were Spitting Games by Snow Patrol and Mr Brightside by The Killers. Yet back in 2003 when those two songs were first released I emptied the place every time I played them. I had to wait a full year until the singles got re-released on major labels with a serious promotional push before I could play them to an audience and get a reaction other than total indifference. I can remember downloading 7 Nation Army a couple of weeks before it was released and I was counting the days until my next gig so that I could play it out. Yet when I finally played it that Wednesday at half one in the morning to a totally packed dance floor it died on it's arse. So many people started heading for the bar I had to whip the record off half way through. The same thing happened with Hey Ya! by Outkast when I first played it at a hip-hop night. Ditto Franz Ferdinand, Kings Of Leon etc etc. The majority of people in clubs just want to get pissed and get their hole. They don't want to be exposed to new music, they just want to hear something they can sing along to so that they can bounce around on the floor and rub themselves up against the nearest member of the opposite sex. Of course there are also a number of people who know their tunes and who want to hear new alternative music but they rarely make their presence felt on the dance floor. More often then not they're propping up the bar and nodding along with approval while the exodus is occurring. And in any case they're seriously outnumbered by the unenlightened majority even in a venue with the tradition of Whelans. But then when you take a look at the play lists of Tom Dunne or add up the amount of great albums that don't even get reviewed let alone recommended by Hot Press is it any wonder that the general masses are so ignorant.
    sweetie
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    1/12/2005 9:36 AM
    Yes, Eoin, even though I can't play at all they handed me the guitar, plectrum and a mic and I can remember trying to do 'whole lotta love.' I would put them in my top five too although having met them again after the ambassador gig I have to say jeff tweedy isn't the most friendly bloke but he had a lot going on then and his music more than makes up for it. Wasn't mad about the oxegen gig though, perhaps I didn't know the new stuff enough back then. Wish they would come over here again after there london dates this year, though. Totally agree with Stroller about his comments on djing new music too. The only time you can get away with playing new stuff is possibly at the beginning of the night before a place gets busy. regards..
    Mully
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    1/12/2005 9:54 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by sweetie
    thursday nights with john walshe (going underground-fm104) are ace
    Hmm, Not sure about that. Not a fan of Fri/Sat in there, as you said, its Indie by Numbers. I headed into Whelans last month on a Thurs after seeing The Beta Band because John Walshe was djing. He (or whoever was DJing) played 45mins straight of 'Hits of the 60s', then pulled out some Pink to round the night off ! Not a happy camper leaving.
    Pilchard
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    1/12/2005 11:56 AM
    Very good points about the lot of the indie DJ having spent many years DJ-ing, stroller's mail hit the nail on the head. when it comes down to it, indie clubs attract the most conservative audiences of all. theyre like fianna fail voters. all they want to hear is the same ol hits over and over again. i remember talking to the 1st DJs who started in whelans and they said it was ridiculous because try as much as they could, it was the same ol' s**te the audience wanted to hear. they used to experiment with new stuff but the audience just wanted (back then) stone roses, happy mondays, house of pain, RATM etc. its different with house/techno cos the audiences are more interested in the overall groove and sound (and are also usually off their tits on something else). i wouldnt fault the DJs in whelans at all because no matter how committed toi new music you are, its the most dis-spiriting sight in the world watching the dancefloor empty as u play a tune u know in your heart of hearts is a winner. sure, some of u will say, i would love to go to whelans and hear bloc party, the magic numbers, secret machines, devendra banhart etc. but sadly, when there are only a dozen of u in the club at the same time, the muppets who want the indie hits win time and time again btw - strangest indie disco sight i ever saw in whelans was will "bonnie prince billie" oldham dancing to deelite's groove is in the heart.
    klootfan
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    1/12/2005 12:30 PM
    Some excellent points made about Dj'ing that i hadnt considered. Considering how annoyed i can get with people when they come back to me recommending that i listen to an album that i tried to get them to listen to ages before, i can imagine that for a DJ its the same experience when a crowd does react to what they know and feel will be or is a great track.
    Eoin
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    1/12/2005 2:04 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by sweetie
    Yes, Eoin, even though I can't play at all they handed me the guitar, plectrum and a mic and I can remember trying to do 'whole lotta love.' I would put them in my top five too although having met them again after the ambassador gig I have to say jeff tweedy isn't the most friendly bloke but he had a lot going on then and his music more than makes up for it. Wasn't mad about the oxegen gig though, perhaps I didn't know the new stuff enough back then. Wish they would come over here again after there london dates this year, though. Totally agree with Stroller about his comments on djing new music too. The only time you can get away with playing new stuff is possibly at the beginning of the night before a place gets busy. regards..
    Yeah I heard Tweedy can be somewhat a difficult fellow, mind you I met his ex Uncle Tupelo partner Jay Farrar in Whelans a while back and he was also less than friendly too !
    Unicron
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    1/12/2005 6:06 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Pilchard
    sure, some of u will say, i would love to go to whelans and hear bloc party, the magic numbers, secret machines, devendra banhart etc. but sadly, when there are only a dozen of u in the club at the same time
    I'm one off the aforementioned headnodders who can count the number of times that he's danced in clubs on one finger (and that was Fireworks, long story, lets just say there was a girl involved.) BUT if I was in Whelans and the DJ put on Devandra Banhart (particularly something like "Michigan State" from Oh Me Oh My just to make it really hard for me) I swear right now on the lives of my unborn children to dance like an idiot to it.
    Una
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    2/20/2005 5:15 PM
    About whelans 'commercialising itself'. It's a rock venue for f**ks sake! Of course it's commercial. Whelan's is far from 'cutting edge', it never has been. It has just played rock music.
    kierry
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    2/22/2005 3:39 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Pilchard
    btw - strangest indie disco sight i ever saw in whelans was will "bonnie prince billie" oldham dancing to deelite's groove is in the heart.
    ha ha!! deadly..
    Norman Schwarzkopf
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    2/23/2005 5:23 PM
    Whelan's to me is just a default, reliable place to go. No surprises, you'll probably meet some people you know there and it's low on assholes. The ubiquitous setlist is only a pain in the arse if you're there every week. I don't know much about it's former glories but, as with nearly everything else in Irish music, I'm sure they were fairly minor glories. It's hardly Max's Kansas City. As for the WLC, let them be. I'd rather them in Whelan's every week, in a safe little bubble, than touring Britain as representatives of our music scene. Throw a rock in this city and you'll hit a singer-songwriter. With a bit of luck, you might put a few out of action.
    Unicron
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    2/23/2005 6:58 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Norman Schwarzkopf
    it's low on assholes.
    Well thats up for debate really.
    Rev Jules
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    2/23/2005 8:36 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Norman Schwarzkopf
    Throw a rock in this city and you'll hit a singer-songwriter. With a bit of luck, you might put a few out of action.
    You might have a bit more luck with that if you used a heat seeking missile.
    Pilchard
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    2/24/2005 9:30 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Rev Jules
    quote:
    Originally posted by Norman Schwarzkopf
    Throw a rock in this city and you'll hit a singer-songwriter. With a bit of luck, you might put a few out of action.
    You might have a bit more luck with that if you used a heat seeking missile.
    or even a bulls**t-seeking missile! i hear george bush has a few going cheap
    Norman Schwarzkopf
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    2/24/2005 4:46 PM
    George Bush owns bulls**t seeking missiles? A bit suicidal, doncha think?


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