El Duderino Basic Member Posts:179  
| 8/23/2004 11:07 AM |
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Before I say anything else I should state that I have no claim to being the biggest Frames fan ever, I have the albums and I go to the occasional gig but that's about it. It was after the gig in Marley Park I got thinking about this. I can't understand why so many Irish people that genuinely have a love of music have such a hatred of the frames?! It can be argued that they do run the contemorary Irish music scene at the moment, but then again, if they didn't it'd just be someone else. I would go so far as to say that this is necessary ever since the axing of no disco left a big hole in our lives.
I can sort of understand why some people love the frames to a near bunny boiler degree because, love them or hate them, they always put on a good show and I have never heard or read an interview in which Glen Hansard has sounded like a pretentious prick.
If it was the case that they went abroad and made their name in England or elsewhere and totally forgot their roots I could understand the whole Frames bashing thing (does anyone like The Thrills???). But they've put in the hard yards at home and have tried to strehgthen the Irish music scene, in my opinion anyway.
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Binokular Veteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/23/2004 11:15 AM |
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YANFA - Yet another frames argument
OK post away kids, but play nice 
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 8/23/2004 11:19 AM |
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Alot of people use The Frames as an easy target. I think they are a top notch band that always release decent albums and have been great the few times I've seen them live. It must be hard on the lads not breaking into England but they never seem to falter on Irish shores.
What was the Marley Park gig like?
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El DuderinoBasic Member Posts:179
| 8/23/2004 11:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gar
What was the Marley Park gig like?
I thought it was pretty damn good. Not sure about the support acts though. I missed Halite and Bellx1. Idlewild and supergrass didn't really capture my attention. They did have to compete with the getting of beer though. They were doomed to failure  |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 8/23/2004 11:34 AM |
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I'm surprised you haven't mastered that yet. Usually when a decent support act is on, I won't be moved especially if I'm covering the gig so I always presuade a mate to get the beers. 'Oh yeah I'll get the next one, I swear'.....but by the time I finish my beer, the main act would be on and everyone would be too interested in seeing the band rather than getting a beer. Easy trick that works. Probably only works on fairly gullable mates but worth a try.
So Damien Rice came on stage. Was he any use? And from setlist I saw, The Frames didn't play many new tunes...what were stand-out new songs?
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El DuderinoBasic Member Posts:179
| 8/23/2004 11:41 AM |
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Finally was the standout new song for me but maybe that's because it was recognisable. Damien Rice was pretty good. Got a great reception from the crowd and played well. The frames didn't play many new tunes but at your first major outdoor headlining gig I suppose your first priority has to be getting the crowd into the moment, which is alot easier done with old, well known tunes. I'm looking forward to the new album though
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/23/2004 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gar
I'm surprised you haven't mastered that yet. Usually when a decent support act is on, I won't be moved especially if I'm covering the gig so I always presuade a mate to get the beers. 'Oh yeah I'll get the next one, I swear'.....but by the time I finish my beer, the main act would be on and everyone would be too interested in seeing the band rather than getting a beer. Easy trick that works. Probably only works on fairly gullable mates but worth a try.
haha, thats just evil Gar, the mild mannered reporter with notebook thing is just an act, your supermans evil twin aren't you?  |
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KarlitoBasic Member Posts:210
| 8/23/2004 11:54 AM |
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What I will say about The Frames, and I like them by the way, is that they seem to have spawned a lot of singer-songwriter type music which is bland, well in the current saturation of the "scene" with this stuff. So by association, a lot of people, that I know would just write them off and find and easy target as Gar says. Also I find that people don't actually like Glen Hansard as they do think he is a prick and goes on too much and all that, at the gigs and if he's spotted around town or whatever he seems to be ignorant unless your a chick.
So my point is, your always gonna get people liking/disliking bands, especially when they get too big for their boots in some peoples eyes, same applies if Bell X1, Republic Of Loose Tychonaut, all these bands get huge in Ireland first and start making a bit of noise elsewhere - it typical Irish begrudery
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 8/23/2004 11:56 AM |
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Nah its just that a mate of mine who went to see The Frames with me at Lisdoonvarna wasn't interested in the slightest. He was there for The Frames that's it. So he kept bugging me to go off and get a beer but I was over at Stage 2 watching Mark Geary, Damein Dempsey & Josh Ritter. He was like a little kid 'Can we go now?'. So I eventually brokered a deal and got rid of him for a bit. After The Frames were finished, we fell asleep on the ground when Christy Moore was playing. A pure rookie at the gig going thing.
I don't usually even drink at gigs, only at one's in small venues. Let's switch this topic back towards The Frames. What was so good about their performance over the w/e? Did Glen talk to the crowd much?
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 8/23/2004 12:04 PM |
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That should've been 'HE' fell asleep when Christy Moore came on. I don't usually ask him to go to any gigs anymore.
I know what you are saying Karlito. I think that the Republic Of Loose will make it elsewhere, but even if they don't they still kick ass at the moment. Don't know why The Frames can't make it abroad, they have really good albums to back up their live shows.
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/23/2004 12:32 PM |
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Gar, The Frames do sell quite a lot in the US, however they are not exactly making huge waves, but thats no different to their slow but steady progress here really, is it? I think you will be interested in this US review of "Set List":
http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/f/frames-setlist.shtml
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ArchieBasic Member Posts:458
| 8/23/2004 3:09 PM |
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The Frames are just a great Irish rock band who always put on a great show. And as well it has to be said that our dear Glen always really seems to appreciate the fans at the shows, and is always chuffed at big turnouts. They don't go abroad because, well, what would be the point? They've all they're interested in right here. There not really into the corporate side of things. I've never thought so at least.
As for the gig. Halite bored me to tears as I came in, Bell X1 were brill should have been higher on the bill, Idlewild were average, Supergrass terrible, Frames excellent as always.
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 8/23/2004 7:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Archie
They don't go abroad because, well, what would be the point? They've all they're interested in right here. There not really into the corporate side of things.
Eh, for a band that aren't interested in abroad, they have signed their fair share of record contracts with international record companies. Oh yes, and they've just signed a deal in the USA with Sub Pop.  |
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ArchieBasic Member Posts:458
| 8/24/2004 9:14 AM |
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Have they? Didn't hear that! I feel so cheated...   |
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| 8/24/2004 2:01 PM |
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why do people hate the frames?
........because their fans start these kind of treads!...........and there music is crap!
simple really
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El DuderinoBasic Member Posts:179
| 8/24/2004 2:57 PM |
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Clamps, why so aggresive man? Chill. As I stated I don't count myself as a huge fan of the Frames but you have given a perfect example of what I was talking about. Should the fact that they draw alot of fans be held against them? I fear I may get a reputation as a devout Frames fan so I'll leave it at that. I started this thread more as a comment on culture and counter culture (in musical terms) than an oppurtunity to wax lyrical about the Frames. They are just an easy example in an Irish context |
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/24/2004 3:18 PM |
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Disliking the Frames for their fans would be like hating Gary Numan for the really scary "Numanoids" that follow him round. On the other hand they do play up to that adoration a bit too much.
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Brain of GBasic Member Posts:161
| 8/24/2004 3:30 PM |
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The love some Frames fans have for Glen Hansard reminds me of the adoration a lot of Jim Morrison's fans used have for him which I find a bit scary. They are, after all, only a band. Regardless of how good/bad you think they are.
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mutchBasic Member Posts:392
| 8/24/2004 3:45 PM |
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is this frames thing primarily a dublin thing, or am i missing something,
i like the gist of what they do, they're just not my cup of buckfast,
i mean i love ac/dc but dont like zepplin, you know? i love sean tyrell's music but cant listen to the frames for some reason, but ive nothing against them either, so like, are their fans really that bad?
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/24/2004 3:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mutch
is this frames thing primarily a dublin thing, or am i missing something,
Well, they did practically live in Whelans for a while, but the Frames fascination seems to definitely extend outside the pale, or maybe its just the same people following them round? |
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Brain of GBasic Member Posts:161
| 8/24/2004 4:01 PM |
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Trust me, their dark legions reside everywhere, notably Galway.
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john@soundweb.ieBasic Member Posts:201
| 8/24/2004 4:02 PM |
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no beef with the frames here but i find the whole get-along-gang thing a bit annoying. it's always the same heads popping up to support, unannounced or not. does this irk anyone else?
i would've laid odds Damien Rice would surface & i have not yet heard a good report for halite but they seem to land these plum gigs for whatever reason.
tell you what'll be interesting - the next "songs from a room" if there is one. we all know there is infinite talented heads out there who would make a go of it, but my guess is that there will be return performances by the usual mob instead of new voices.
forgive me, i am a bit crabby today - i'm expected to do some work for the money they pay me... didnt think they were serious at the interview. how wrong i was.
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 8/24/2004 4:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Binokular
the Frames fascination seems to definitely extend outside the pale, or maybe its just the same people following them round?
Nail on head there. They actually play to the same audience of the same people at each night on their tour. The entire Frames audience fan base etc was at Marley park last week. |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 8/24/2004 4:45 PM |
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Who cares what a section of The Frames' fans are like? I like The Frames but I wouldn't be obsessed about them (I missed the Marlay Park gig). I think people just target them because as I said before they are an easy target. Just let them play to whatever audience that turns up and judge them on how they perform live or what they release. I have a feeling that Eoghan will be getting some angry reviews of 'Burn The Maps' when it comes out.
About the 'Other Voices' thing. I disagree. The second session moved onwards with different musicians and helped me discover people like Declan O'Rourke, Bic Runga and Simple Kid. There are so many artists out there who need something like this compliation to get them known to the wider public. I think Fionn Regan, Stewart Agnew, Jenny Lindfors, Redneck Manifesto might all make an appearance on the next one. But I disagree that all the 'Whelans lock-in crowd' or whatever you want to call them will keep dominating the Irish scene.
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| 8/24/2004 5:32 PM |
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el duderino, i was being very, very passive when i made that comment. i just don't like the frames, but i don't go round shouting out that fact to anyone. the point i was making was that frames fans seem to feel the need to defend the band for some reason. i like a whole host of bands that a lot of people don't like, as i'm sure does everybody else does....but when i find out that somebody doesn't like them, i don't go round asking them why! ye dig?
i did really like glen in the commitments though
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 8/24/2004 5:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gar
About the 'Other Voices' thing. I disagree. The second session moved onwards with different musicians
Actually, I disagree with that. 'Other Voices' is more of the same, tepid, tame, lacklustre stuff as the rest of RTE's ouput.
We now live in a multicultural society but where do we see that reflected in the Irish music scene. Do you know, for example, that there is an underground hip hop scene here led by a Nigerian rapper ? Irish music is surprisingly xenophobic and unchanging.
I have a suggestion for you Gar. F*ck 'Other Voices'. Instead, go to Tower and invest in some of the Cantonese/mandarin pop records that they are selling now. That really is the sound of the city |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 8/24/2004 9:05 PM |
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The point I was making was that Other Voices 2 moved on with introducing more artists rather than throw Josh Ritter, Mark Geary etc all in again. I know what you are saying about Ireland not embracing its now multi cultured society. Sometimes they aren't good enough but mostly the case is that they are not commerically the polished package. I would of course be one to encourage the Irish music scene to adopt different flavours/sounds.
Rev Jules, you should write a review on some of those artists that you are referring to and post it up here. The best thing about Cluas is that many of the writers write reviews about independent/unknown artists. So why shouldn't artists of different races' be included? Well they shouldn't so here's a chance for anyone to introduce the world to some of these lesser known artists.
As for the future of Other Voices. I'd like to see a mix of many musical tastes thrown in there. But not fully abandon the singer/songwriter trend. RTE are crap for music anyway, why are we discussing this? Jools Holland is a classic example of mixing different musical tastes by artists from all around the world. Wouldn't it be an idea for RTE or TV3 to do a show like this? Just ban Eammon Dunphy from singing Raglan Road.
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 8/25/2004 11:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gar
The point I was making was that Other Voices 2 moved on with introducing more artists rather than throw Josh Ritter, Mark Geary etc all in again. I know what you are saying about Ireland not embracing its now multi cultured society. Sometimes they aren't good enough but mostly the case is that they are not commerically the polished package. I would of course be one to encourage the Irish music scene to adopt different flavours/sounds.
I agree with everything you say Gar. The problem is that this attitude extends down to the grass roots of Open Mics etc.
Actually this is something of a bugbear with me. For example, I loathe the fact that we recently changed the constitution to remove the right of automatic citizenship at birth (a right that still exists in the US Constitution, for all you rabid, left wing, 'I'm not Anti american...but' and then we see that patronising ad for the lotto on tv which turns the people of the African continent (very diverse culturally, eleven separate official languages in S.A alone) into some kind of happy clappy 'relax man' tourist attractions. Yeuch. You used to see films like that on tv...in South Africa...prior to Mandela's election. |
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/25/2004 11:30 AM |
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Yeah, I have to say that lotto ad makes me cringe too.
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mutchBasic Member Posts:392
| 8/25/2004 11:41 AM |
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rte are sh1t, so DIY, go to tg4, they must be crying out for good material, sounds like you can provide it, come on like, the last good music show (no disco) was shot down by rte,
in fact, throw a few ideas in about a good concept for the format,
why not like?
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El DuderinoBasic Member Posts:179
| 8/25/2004 11:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
Originally posted by Gar
The problem is that this attitude extends down to the grass roots of Open Mics etc.
I'm not sure how much this attitude has to do with organisers of open mic nights. You may not be suggesting this but it does lead to an interesting point. I play open mic nights myself and alot of the stuff is very definitely along the same lines (and I'm not saying that I'm anything special). I have however seen a few musicians playing these nights in the recent passed that have taken a different approach to the whole singer/songwriter thing. They've gone for a bluesy sort of sound which does add a bit of variety. It's very hard to get musicians that do offer variety in Dublin though. I don't know why this is. If you did a survey of musicians in the country you would come up with a mind boggling variety of influences, yet this doesn't seem to manifest itself in the open mic nights.
I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the frames either. How many musicians wax lyrical about Jeff Buckley and Leonard Cohen. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to like J.B or L.C. but alot of acts seem to be very polarised when it comes to what they listen to, which is probably why the variety isn't there.
This puts an owness on musicians that have those diverse influences to get out there and put themselves about. There has to be more to the grass roots Irish music scene than what I've witnessed.
I should qualify this rant by saying there are some excellent musicians playing these nights that I really enjoy listening to, but like alot of people I would like to see alot more variety |
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/25/2004 12:30 PM |
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No Disco was a pretty good show and there wasn't much with the format I'd change. Some more live appearances by bands on TV would be good, though obviously a bit more costly. Maybe use the web to generate a bit of content too? Encourage anyone handy with a camcorder, macromedia flash/studio or similar to create videos for songs from new bands that don't have videos? They used to do something like this for their "Audio On" section but it was just generic footage, rather than putting together a specific video.
On the subject of Open Mic nights, I haven't been to see many so I'm making a few assumptions here, but maybe the PA/stage is only set up for the "one man (or woman) and a guitar" thing? What if you want to get a band up there? or you want to set up a laptop, couple of synths and a drum machine? Or your into hip hop and want to get a few decks and a mike up there? And all thats just getting on stage, whats the audience reaction going to be from some folks expecting an evening mainly composed of relatively quiet acoustic stuff?
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mutchBasic Member Posts:392
| 8/25/2004 1:56 PM |
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cluas tv lads i'm tellin ye, too many good ideas goin to waste among ye all here
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 8/25/2004 2:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Binokular
On the subject of Open Mic nights, I haven't been to see many so I'm making a few assumptions here, but maybe the PA/stage is only set up for the "one man (or woman) and a guitar" thing? What if you want to get a band up there? or you want to set up a laptop, couple of synths and a drum machine? Or your into hip hop and want to get a few decks and a mike up there?
If you were a really good rapper, you could do it acapella with another guy bopping out a human beatbox groove through a mike. Rap started on the streets with no equipment whatsoever. It would be nice to see some of that here.
As for audience reaction, hey, when the homies in the house, don't nobody give a f*ck 'bout them m*thaf*ckas. Know what I'm sayin' Dog. Peace.
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 8/25/2004 2:42 PM |
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Very true Jules, grab the power from the streetlights and feed it into your turntable, lets have a block party! who needs open mic nights anyway!
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john@soundweb.ieBasic Member Posts:201
| 8/25/2004 2:49 PM |
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"no disco" was good, the delivery was a bit dodgy sometimes but overall many more plus's than minus's. RTE cite lack of viewership - what the hell do you expect putting it out at 11.30pm or whatever?! some music fans do have jobs and are in bed by then.
why would any band consider making a video now, if they cant get it on the d'telly? yeah the web etc. etc. but its not the same is it?
anyway i digress... so i will post another topic
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| 8/31/2004 6:50 PM |
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Hating The Frames is the typical Irish thing to do when someone makes headway in their career. If they had no success, nobody would be bitching.
I've seen them 6 times. 4 times in Boston, once in NYC, once in Dublin. All excellent gigs. I saw the crowds at the US gigs go from nearly all ex-pats to a 50/50 mix of Irish/Americans in that time. Glen does ramble a bit but what would you prefer ?? Van Morrison's total ignorance of the paying crowd ?
Fair f**ks to The Frames and I hope to see you on the West cost of the US sometime.
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ArchieBasic Member Posts:458
| 9/1/2004 10:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
It would be nice to see some of that here.
There are a couple of guys who do that around grafton street and temple bar. They're actually really good. |
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