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Last Post 6/15/2004 11:51 AM by  john@soundweb.ie
Madge - hit or miss?
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john@soundweb.ie
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6/15/2004 11:51 AM
    anyone arsed going to slane? what price are tickets and why has this woman never bothered to play here before now?
    Binokular
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    6/15/2004 11:57 AM
    85 euro, seems a bit steep, but not as bad as initially suggested (150 euro). Can't be arsed going, but then again I was too lazy to go to the Pixies either.
    klootfan
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    6/15/2004 12:09 PM
    Nah. wouldnt be my cup of tea. Its strange that the have picked an act to play Slane which would appeal alot more to one of the sexes then the other. This means that they will be relying on trying to sell 80,000 tickets to alot smaller customer base. Or are there quite a lot of men out there who enjoy her stuff ?? I cant see how they might balance this out. I dont reckon it will sell out as quick as last year anyway
    El Duderino
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    6/15/2004 12:40 PM
    Who is supporting her at Slane? It'd want to be a legendary line up to A)justify the ticket price and B)make up for the really sh*tty main act
    Binokular
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    6/15/2004 2:37 PM
    I'm kind of amused by the last two posts. If you don't like the main act, why bother going at all? Ok there might be a "must see" support act, but more likely not. The ticket price is steep, but people seem to be willing to sell their kidneys for tickets everytime some smug, complacent "legend" from the 60s plays here. Maybe not your cup of tea, but I'm pretty sure Madonna will sell a respectable though probably not record-breaking number of tickets. Klootfan, I'm a (straight) bloke and I think Madonnas great. I like pop music (there! I've said it), and Madonna makes good pop music, simple as that. After 20 years, its daft to dismiss the womans a throwaway novelty. Yes, she has released a lot of duds, but "like a prayer" is great. The whole "Ray of Light" an "Music" albums are fantastic. "American Life" is pretty rubbish, but you can't have it all eh? So what if she manipulates the media, so what if she has cynically cherry-picked her collaborators to keep up with the latest trends (William Orbit, Mirwais, etc.). She has made good pop records and at the end of the day (to borrow a football cliche) thats all that counts. I find it funny that in other threads people are being praised for admitting to liking country music, when in reality theres no stigma. The hipsters are clamouring over each other to prove their authentic country credentials, while the idea of guy liking pop music is, well, just a bit suspicious really. Anyway, if Madonna really does appeal mainly to women, it actually makes a lot of commercial sense. The main reasons I won't be seeing Madonna live are that as said already, I'm just too lazy to make the trip and also its not really the authentic Madonna experience. Madonna is the original MTV star. Seeing her in a music video is ironically more the reality of what Madonna is about than seeing her live.
    El Duderino
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    6/15/2004 3:13 PM
    Fair enough, she had her day once upon a time and if you liked her that's up to you, and maybe sh*tty main act was a bit harsh. She has done her bit in the whole development of music, or rather as Binokular pointed out, the development of music videos. However, this whole idea of aging artists playing these tours as if they were at the top of their game is getting all too common. And whats worse is that it's becoming more and more common, and more and more expensive. The main problem i see with the Slane gig (apart from not being a Madonna fan) is that it is profiteering in its purest form. She could've made the tickets a reasonable price if she wanted to but these kind of acts don't seem to care that alot of their original fan base might not necessarily be able to afford these exorbitant prices. When a artist shows this kind of disdain for their fans I can't really see how they can be defended
    Rev Jules
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    6/15/2004 5:18 PM
    quote:
    I think Madonnas great. I like pop music (there! I've said it), and Madonna makes good pop music, simple as that...The whole "Ray of Light" an "Music" albums are fantastic...I find it funny that in other threads people are being praised for admitting to liking country music, when in reality theres no stigma. The hipsters are clamouring over each other to prove their authentic country credentials, while the idea of guy liking pop music is, well, just a bit suspicious really.
    Oh, how can I not respond to my fellow moderator on this one, especially since i agree and disagree with him in equal measure about the same things ! Ok, here goes. First off, one of the Irish music industries biggest country music fans, and someone who had admitted in interview that he was persecuted for it growing up in Kiltimagh by all the rockers is none other than...Pop Supremo Louis Walsh ! Not sure what the last point meant. Hey, maybe we could all get together and set up CA (Country Anonymous..."Hi, My name is Steve. I listen to Alan Jackson....ten hours a day, every day") Second, 'Music' is Madge's 'gone country' record (or at least that's what she said in the run up to its release). Three, the hipsters are not clamouring over their credentials, they don't know enough to clamour, and Jack White should be hung from the nearest lamp post in Austin Texas for what he did to Loretta Lynn. I have been to three seriously important country gigs in Ireland in the last six months, Rodney Crowell, Dr Ralph Stanley and Sharon Vaughan, and I didn't see many hipsters there. I did however see alot of middle aged guys with toupees and Pringle jumpers though (myself excepted, not being middle aged, toupee wearing or the owner of anything by Pringle), oh yes, and Mickey Harte (not to be confused with Americana legend Mickey Hart). What a difference an E makes !
    QsySue
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    6/15/2004 5:44 PM
    I think the reason for the huge ticket prices is that this is more like a Broadway production than a concert. My brother's going to the show in Philly, I'll let you all know how it was. :)
    john@soundweb.ie
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    6/15/2004 6:16 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by john@soundweb.ie
    ...and why has this woman never bothered to play here before now?
    i.m.o. she hasn't earned a slane regardless of her life on MTV (when it was MusicTV i mean, but thats another days work!)... you gotta earn a slane gig by showing some regard for the fans of this country
    the perfect cousin
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    6/15/2004 7:12 PM
    Ah Jayzuz lads. Its only music. Gettin "Now That's Wha' I Call Music" this weeeeekend at the markeh. Good beats, deadly buzz yeah! Big shou' ou' teh me possie in Courtown. Story Rasher, Bulletproof an' Ammo? I'll be down to see yiz for me holidays with the ma an' da in the august! Savage.
    Rev Jules
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    6/15/2004 8:24 PM
    ...Four, is liking Madonna some kind of 21st Century version of 'Showtunes and Barbara Streisand' kick ? Like ? Hey, theres an idea for a Radio Show, 'Queer Ear for the Straight Guy' Sample Dialogue: "OH MY GOD, Meatloaf, throw it out. What YOU need is some Madonna. She's simply FABULOUS !!!" (Just want to apologise for any negative stereotyping that might have occured in that last paragraph. I fully accept that you can be gay and rock out. Exhibit A: Ocean Colour Scene. For the record, I am going to stand up and say that I am going to see Madge in Slane. The Missus has insisted, the records are on her car stereo non stop. I have been give the collected lyrics and told to learn them off by heart so that we can share the experience of singing along together. There is no escape for me ! Want a review when I get back ?
    Rev Jules
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    6/15/2004 8:50 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by the perfect cousin
    Good beats, deadly buzz yeah! Big shou' ou' teh me possie in Courtown. Story Rasher, Bulletproof an' Ammo?
    Perfect Cousin, are you not supposed to be studying for what remains of your Leaving Cert ? Hmm ?
    Binokular
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    6/16/2004 2:31 PM
    Hey Jules, I have to admit I was kinda trying to provoke a reaction (thoroughly irresponsible behaviour for a moderator!) and its worked! but hey, it makes for interesting discussions. OK the "hipster" comment regarding country music was a bit extreme, but you gotta admit, country has never been more credible, OK maybe a lot of the stuff people are listening to isn't "real" country but I'll leave that debate to the afficionados. I can understand you bringing up Louis Walsh, but to me, he is a man who knows very little about pop music, just a lot about show business. His management style seems to be more like someone involved in the cabaret scene, he used to manage Linda Martin apparently. Even most of his so called "pop" acts are not really pop. None of them are real pop stars with perhaps the exception of Samantha Mumba (and even then she kind of morphed into a poor R&B act). People just give Westlife and Boyzone the label "pop" because its mainly listened to by young girls who can be found falling off their heels after a few bacardi breezers. OK this all might sound a bit silly because by strict definition pop music can just be described as music thats popular. However to me theres a bit more to it than that. To me pop music is about distilling music down until all your left with is the fun bits. Westlifes bloated ballads sound more like they could be used to sell life assurance or washing powder or something than being pop. Granted, the Carpenters wrote a song for a bank ad, I'll give you that, but I hope your getting my point (I'm even confusing myself here). Its hard to define what pop music is, but westlife and boyzone are not it, while Brian Wilson, Kim Wilde, Blondie, The Bangles, B-52s, The Monkees, Abba, Betty Boo, Human League, Bananarama, Madonna, Kylie ad even (God forbid) S-Club 7 are. Confused? You should be! Music is Madonnas country record? Well she wears a big ol' stetson on the cover so it must be. Hey, this is a woman who espouses the latest new age mystical hippie crap and calls it "spirituality" Madonna the new "Showtunes and Barbara Streisand kick"? I hope not, I was just responding to the assumption that Madonnas audience is predominantly female, which maybe true, but I don't think any bloke growing up in the 80s didn't fancy Madonna (not a patch on Kim Wilde though). My mum used to like Barbara Streisand and musicals, did me 'ead in, nearly driving me to random acts of violence. Better stop now, this is all getting a bit too Freudian. Come to think of it, isn't Meatloaf a bit of a Showtunes guy himself? I believe hes done some musicals and "Bat out of Hell" is more light opera than it is Heavy Metal!
    John Doe
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    6/16/2004 3:30 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Rev Jules
    quote:
    Originally posted by the perfect cousin
    Good beats, deadly buzz yeah! Big shou' ou' teh me possie in Courtown. Story Rasher, Bulletproof an' Ammo?
    Perfect Cousin, are you not supposed to be studying for what remains of your Leaving Cert ? Hmm ?
    He's too busy watching the Aslan at Vicar Street DVD.
    John Doe
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    6/16/2004 3:34 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Rev Jules
    Hey, theres an idea for a Radio Show, 'Queer Ear for the Straight Guy' Sample Dialogue: "OH MY GOD, Meatloaf, throw it out. What YOU need is some Madonna. She's simply FABULOUS !!!" (Just want to apologise for any negative stereotyping that might have occured in that last paragraph. I fully accept that you can be gay and rock out. Exhibit A: Ocean Colour Scene.
    Pah. Tom Robinson was rocking out and singing how he was "Glad To Be Gay" in the dark days of the '70s, unlike now when, apparently, gay is the new straight.
    Rev Jules
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    6/16/2004 4:17 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by John Doe Tom Robinson was rocking out and singing how he was "Glad To Be Gay" in the dark days of the '70s
    Ehh, isn't Tom Robinson now straight as in... In 1988 the British press discovered that he was living with a woman and made a big issue of it. In 1990 he turned 40 and became a father. By the age of 42 he was married and had two children. I understand he is now called 'The Artist Formerly Known as Gay' So yes, Gay is the new Straight, in more ways than one
    Rev Jules
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    6/16/2004 4:38 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Binokular
    you gotta admit, country has never been more credible...I don't think any bloke growing up in the 80s didn't fancy Madonna... isn't Meatloaf a bit of a Showtunes guy himself?
    Oh man, ok, When I see Heads in Whelans enthusing about Reba McEntire and Alan Jackson then, yes, I will accept that Country is credible...For the record, Ryan Adams, Will Oldham, Uncle Tupelo and so on are not Country...so anyone out there thinking of trying it on, dont. I actually didn't fancy Madonna...I saw what she did to Willem Dafoe with broken glass and candle wax...I preferred the soft, bouncy, latin spirit of yer one who sang 'boys boys boys' as her top came off in a swimming pool. Oh yes, and Suzi Quatro. Yum Is Meatloaf a Gay Icon ? Hmm, as he says himself, 'I Would Do Anything For Love But I Won't Do That'. What is 'That' ? Eh no, don't think he is. Jim Steinman also produced The Sisters of Mercy, and I don't think they could be branded gay...or could they ?
    Binokular
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    6/16/2004 5:04 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Rev Jules Hmm, as says himself, 'I Would Do Anything For Love But I Won't Do That'. What is 'That' ?
    As Jay Leno once quipped, 'That' would be "eat a salad". Hey, I just said Meatloaf did showtunes, I wasn't implying anything else, honest! I think he'd openly admit that what he does is more theatre than rock and roll.
    Rev Jules
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    6/17/2004 9:05 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Binokular
    the idea of guy liking pop music is, well, just a bit suspicious really.
    I must admit, the above phrase by my fellow moderator has stuck with me. There you are, in your de rigeur grey Ramones T-Shirt, with a copy of NME under your arm strolling down the street listening to your I-Pod. Passers by think you are listening to the latest lo-fi release by Hammell on Trial, White Stripes, Franz Ferdinand or some other credible rock act...but no...you are indulging in Guilty Pop Pleasures, those pop songs by the likes of....S Club 7...that you secretly love. What are you hidden desires ? Here are a few of mine 'Dancehall Days' - Wayne Chung 'Rock DJ' - Robbie Williams 'The Lion Sleeps Tonight' - Tight Fit 'Whenever, Wherever' - Shakira 'LA Ex' - Rachel Stevens 'Hit Me Baby One More Time' - Britany Spears (I so know I am going to pay for that one) 'I Want To Be Free' - Toyah Willcox (Oh man, my first gig in the RDS)
    Binokular
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    6/17/2004 11:46 AM
    Jules, this whole sbuject of pop probably deserves its own thread! where do I start? Theres just so many songs I could add! For starters: A large chunk of the combined back catalogue of Bananarama, The Bangles, Destinys Child (does that count as pop or RnB or both?) Human League and Yazoo. "Shoes On, Boots Off" - LUV (imagine a Dutch all girl version of Abba) "Kids in America" - Kim Wilde "Like a Prayer" - Madonna "Can't get you out of my head" and "Slow" - Kylie Minogue "say what you want" - Nelly Furtado (does that count?) I have to agree with some of your choices too Jules, Lion Sleeps tonight is great (and hilarious if you catch me trying sing along too as I try to stretch my deep baritone to its upper limits). "LA Ex" - all I can say is that Alison Goldfrapp must be kicking herself. Shakira makes me smile too but perhaps for all the wrong reasons, those lyrics crack me up, especially the way she sings them with such sincerity and passion despite having such a tenuous grasp of English. After saying that, I hope I never accidentally bump into Shakira, she sounds like the kind of girl who could easily kick the crap out of anyone.
    Rev Jules
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    6/17/2004 11:59 AM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Binokular
    "say what you want" - Nelly Furtado (does that count?)
    Oh yes it does, let me add another one there 'Turn Out The Light' - Nelly Furtado By the way, I used to think that the line, 'I don't know where my home is' from "I'm Like A Bird' was 'I don't know where my phone is' on account of the fact that me mobiles kept getting nicked in the pub after my return to Dublin.
    Archie
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    6/17/2004 12:45 PM
    Madonna in Slane? Bad idea all round. The Slane concert always attracts fans of rock music not just fans of the particular artist, this will only attract Madonna fans. What was once Irelands premier rockfest will now be a pathetic little pop party. To get anybody else interested they would have to get one hell of a line-up but the groups that would attract the crowds probably wouldn't want to support Madonna. Know what I mean? Madonna makes great pop music and that's great for pop fans that shes coming here for once. But at the same time Slane is a rock concert.
    Lucera
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    6/17/2004 12:56 PM
    two minor points, since robbie williams played there its been tainted a bit, i reckon breweries are losing out on a small fortune, which means the "hello money" to the event organisers isnt what it could be (probably huge. probably...) she wont exactly attract a lager drinking crowd, it might explain the ticket prices, i havent been following the story but i doubt she even knows shes playing in ireland, we're not exactly a huge market here for someone like her
    Binokular
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    6/17/2004 1:42 PM
    Good point about Robbie Williams Lucera, Madonna is not the first pop act to play Slane! One would hope that the reaction to her playing Slane has nothing to with her Gender. Certainly she is preferable to 2002s so-called rock act, the yawn-inducing stereophonics. For those that are interested, previous Slane Concerts Line-ups: * 1981 Thin Lizzy - U2 - Hazel O'Connor - Rose Tattoo - Sweet Savage - The Bureau - Megahype * 1982 Rolling Stones - J. Geils Band - The Chieftans - George Thorogood & The Destroyers * 1984 Bob Dylan - UB40 - Santana - In Tua Nua * 1985 Bruce Springsteen * 1986 Queen - Chris Rea - Bangles - Fountain Head * 1987 David Bowie - Big Country - Aslan - The Grove * 1992 Guns N' Roses - Faith No More - My Little Funhouse * 1993 Neil Young - Pearl Jam - Van Morrison - Saw Doctors - James - 4 Non Blondes - The Blue Angels * 1995 REM - Oasis - Spearhead - Sharon Shannon - Belly - Luka Bloom * 1998 The Verve - Manic Street Preachers - Robbie Williams - Finley Quaye - The Sea Horses - James - Junkster * 1999 Robbie Williams - Stereophonics - Placebo - Happy Mondays - Gomez - David Gray - Simon Carmody * 2000 Bryan Adams - Moby - Macy Gray - Melanie C - Muse - Eagle Eye Cherry - Dara - Screaming Orphans * 2001 - First Concert U2 - Red Hot Chili Peppers - Coldplay - Kelis - JJ72 - Relish * 2001 - Second Concert U2 - Moby - Ash - Nelly Furtado - The Walls - Dara * 2002 The Stereophonics - The Charlatans - Nickelback - Counting Crows - Ocean Colour Scene - Doves - The Revs * 2003 Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Foo Fighters - Queens of Stone Age - PJHarvey - Feeder - Morcheeba - Hailte
    Rev Jules
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    6/17/2004 2:19 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Archie
    Slane is a 'rock' concert (venue).
    And thanks to the expertise of my munificent fellow moderator, as a rock concert arena it has hosted such Hard Rockers as... The Chieftans In Tua Nua Bangles Sharon Shannon Luka Bloom David Gray Melanie C Kelis Nelly Furtado I don't know what the question is, music is the answer.
    El Duderino
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    6/17/2004 2:55 PM
    having seen the first main acts that graced the stage in Slane I think it's fair to say that the gig has gone considerably down hill from what it used to be. Traditionally Slane is for the all time big hitters like Bowie, Guns 'n' Roses, Dylan etc. so I guess having Madonna headlining is sort of reverting to form. Still have no intention of going though
    Lucera
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    6/17/2004 5:50 PM
    1992 would have been awesome, compared to lizzy though, almost everything since 92 seems to be aimed at the mondeo men/women. im with bill hicks, shoot all music marketing people, NOW!
    Binokular
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    6/18/2004 11:24 AM
    Heard this morning that Ticketmaster will be hiring an extra 250 staff to cope with demand for Madonna tickets. The press release on the MCD site is amusing, at least for pedantic technical geeks because it says that ticketmaster will add "Extra capacity on Internet lines"(sic). I think you'll find they mean increasing the bandwidth capacity and number of requests the webserver can handle. At least thats what I hope they mean, or else we will have a repeat of the whole Glastonbury fiasco. Jules, just thinking about your 'pretending to be credible indie but listening to pop comment'. I know bootlegging/mashups is old hat by now (even David Bowies copped on to it by now) and this track has being doing the rounds for ages but I always think more people should listen to the brilliant Freelance Hellraiser bootleg "A Stroke of Genius" which mixes The Strokes with Christina Aguileras' "Genie in a Bottle". After listening to that, you realise that the line between credible indie and throwaway pop is not as distinct as we're lead to believe, in fact they're just a short step away from each other. And to add some more artists to the "(guiilty?) pop pleasures" list: Saint Ettienne (entire back catalogue), despite indie credibility, they are a real pop band, or at least an idealised version of what a pop band should be. They just happen to be a pop band thats not actually popular Sugababes have but out loads of great singles, if only they could get a great album together too. Oh well, just a case of waiting for the inevitable "best of" shortly after the group eventually implodes. Giorgio Moroder - "Looky Looky" - he wasn't all synthpop and disco you know!
    Rev Jules
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    6/18/2004 1:15 PM
    quote:
    Originally posted by Binokular
    Giorgio Moroder - "Looky Looky" - he wasn't all synthpop and disco you know!
    Ehh, I used to have a tape copy of the 'Flashdance' soundtrack that I played until it wore out. I was thirteen. This is a bit like AA isn't it..."Hi, I'm Jules. I just bought two tickets to Madonna online". I did actually. The missus is VERY happy.
    John Doe
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    6/18/2004 4:16 PM
    That's great list Binokular, respect. I've been to eight out of the list, including the very first one. How we rocked to Hazel O'Connor !! *drifts off into nostalgic reverie*
    Archie
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    6/18/2004 4:40 PM
    Eh, ye're probably right. Maybe Madonna will pull it off, but she will have to work hard for her extortionate money. Slane without the huge crowd would be a bit atmosphere-less, and you can't deny the crowd is going to be quite a lot smaller... I feel I must admit at this point before this goes any further: I have only been to one Slane concert, last years sniff sniff sniff. '93 seems like a good yearI no its off the point but I have to say why does everyone feel they have to get drunk at concerts? Drunk people always put a downer on things. But back to the point yes Slane does seem to be heading downwards. Then again it is all hills...
    MaryJane
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    6/18/2004 6:32 PM
    I think madonna should be booed away from these shores like the plague and G. W. Bush. I think its cheeky and disrespectful to come over and play a traditionally rocking highlight of the irish calendar and ask for 90Euro. She is only here to collect her pension, I hear she is set to get 2million plus whatever she creams off the gate. I am sick of 'Legends'(McCartney,Dylan etc..) coming to our country and riding us just for being music fans. People like this would not have their 'legendary status' if it were not for us folk who bought their records in the first place. This sort of thing should be boycotted simply for the price alone. Madonna, Justify my Hole
    Rev Jules
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    6/19/2004 2:50 PM
    Have just seen that both The Darkness and Iggy Pop wil play support on Madge's bill so...every cloud has a silver lining.
    The_Thin_Man
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    6/21/2004 12:11 PM
    I hear ya Mary Jane, but don't forget when the term 'legend' is used in respect of those acts it more often than not refers to 'legend of musical sales' as opposed to 'musical legend' - a marketing term, not a cultural one, I'd argue. I'm sure Madonna/Springsteen/Dylan/Simon's moneymen would cynically argue that 'if yr dumb enough to pay it, don't complain about its cost'...at times I think they're right.
    El Duderino
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    6/21/2004 1:05 PM
    I think it's a bit hasty to dismiss Madonna/Springsteen/Dylan/Simon as being devoid of cultural integrity. Each of them did their own thing and I believe affected change in their field. Madonna I think is less of a cultural phenomonen than Dylan, Simon and Springsteen admittedly, but these acts have all added something to music and everyday culture. I think Madonna is typical of the tactics used by record companies now and then. Build 'em up big and then get some pretenders you can make a bit of extra cash off. It may have been somewhat artificial (in my opinion) but none the less, an impact it did make. I wouldn't hesitate to call these performers legends, I just wouldn't pay top dollar to ruin a perfectly good illusion (that being that there's still some entertainment value in their live shows)
    john@soundweb.ie
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    6/23/2004 8:59 AM
    The Darkness are at Oxegen and Iggy was at Green Energy so its strange decision to bring em both back as support.


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