But opinion is all that exists. Therefore IN MY OPINION _________ is the best debut album. And IN MY OPINION __________'s art is better than __________'s art. Some artists are better than others.

Opinion is all that exists yeah, but so many people give some journalists/experts TOO much credit for their opinion. They can make or break an artist. And at the end of the day, if one supposed 'expert' has an opinion it doesn't mean anything. That leads to the whole music snobbery thing, which really bugs me. That music is tiered and classed by opinions. Surely it should exist outside that, holding something for everyone and not just the elite few who know all.

Well, if we're talking about journalists, that's a different thing. But I don't think joedolan was referring to that. He was referring to the "best debut album" debate on this site, wasn't he? I think that it is true that music journalists have too much power, since it IS only one person's opinion, etc. but I don't like putting music above, or "outside" other things. I think that's a mistake, which has undesirable consequences. (such as Glen Hansard).

uh oh. I took the piss out of shiny-faced Glen on an Irish music site. I'm in for it now.

Im a frames fan myself, but this website is all about free opinion, unlike the frames messageboard, which is one big clique of agnst filled teenagers.....where simply failing to mention god in the same sentence as glen, is considered a sin....

hmmmmmm. granted, by saying "best" one is expressing opinion. the thread here was the catalyst for my rant, but i did refer to "magazines", and by implication, journalists. those all time best of poles seem especially silly, even the ones voted for by "the people". just coz more people like an album doesn't mean that it's the "best". (whatever that actually is)... by that definition, robbie williams is "better" than godspeed or miles davis. i think that the urge to be better in music leads to things like linkin park. hit the notes perfectly!! have "better" production than the other guys!! make it sound expensive!! be bigger and better in everyway!! whereas stuff like palace is clearly not preoccupied with this competetive view of music. this is not directly critical of the thread on this board, it's just an observation.

ps: i am aware of the hipocritical statements i've made there, and of the implicit musical snobbery in the statements. to get back to my original question, could someone define for me what specfically the "best" means (in music), as distinct from "favourite". i'd be interested to hear it.

i reckon the 'best' music is the music that can be identified as most real, honest, impassioned, original, inspiring...in whatever field...i.e. if it's clear that the music is created for the right reasons...er, i dunno if that makes sense...

Yeah, I agree with both joedolan and king of nails. In terms of joedolan's point, I DESPISE music/musicians that emphasise technical expertise etc. It's just so VACANT. There are so many bands that are more interesting which, although they COULD show off their technical skills, they don't - and the music is great because the listener can almost hear the space that has been left by what the musician has NOT played. Also, there are some artists who I think are far superior than most, even though they can hardly play a note - has anyone heard The Shaggs? I'm just wary of placing music outside of everything else - in a sort of wishy-washy "everything is beautiful" kind of way. 'Cos everything is NOT beautiful. A lot of stuff is ugly. But sometimes ugly is beautiful i suppose.... I'm gonna stop typing now

i get you conor...it's better to hold back than show off...set yourself limitations...eg. i'm a huge r.e.m. fan and when peter buck decided he was getting too competent on guitar he decided to try the mandolin and the results were astounding (hairshirt, wrong child, you are the everything, losing my religion etc)... it's true in terms of singing too...eg. i like jeff buckley when he doesn't batter the s**t out of his vocal chords... and home-produced demo-sounding albums tend to sound a lot better than studio-perfected records... less is more, to put it simply!

yeah. sorry, don't have time to answer properly at the moment

Less can be more but thats not always the case. If Jimmy hendrix held back and played the recorder would he be the legend he is now? Some people have the rigth to let rip and some dont thats what makes pioniers and legends simple as that....

But Jimmy Hendrix DID hold back. DEFINITELY. His guitar playing was NOT indulgent, quite the opposite. He did not w**k with his guitar. He made love. w**king is weedling: WEEDLY WEEDLY WEEDLY WEEDLY! he did not do this. His playing ducked and jumped and rested and raced - it was all done with restraint - A man with HIS technical skill, if he just let go, it would have been horrible. But he didn't. He played what was needed in the moment

At the moment, I'm typing this with that "Songs From a Room" program in the background, and, i'm sorry, I'm NOT saying this to offend anyone, but that Glen Hansard fellow makes me want to get physically sick. He's like the Bertie Aherne of music: EVERYTHING about him is fake

And another thing, Duncan have you heard "The Wind Cries Mary" by Hendrix? that is like the musical equivalent of a perfect watercolour painting! All the touches are there, and anything else added would have ruined it and the empty spaces make the space in which the beauty of it is formed

Jimi playin the recorder.....ha ha ha ha ha No seriously...the man was a legend and it was quite well known that he wasn't an overly confidant guy, so I'd imagine he did restrain himself somewhat, but in the struggle between harnessing his genius and letting the emotion flow out of his fingers what beauty was made? I like your analogy of 'The Wind Cries Mary' being like a watercolour painting Conor, although for much of the rest of his music I think it would be more vibrant and erotic in parts.

I like the idea that some one can live and died and have played the guitar and someone could have described it as "erotic". very very cool

It's pure erotic i think....Jimi is the best music to have sex to...without a doubt (closely followed by Iassac hayes, in particular his version of 'The Look Of Love', sooo sultry) and I'd have to say the Doors are good for that too. Kinky.