In my opinion, the reason you're paying so much into gigs is mainly because of venues/promoters as opposed to bands themselves. It's almost impossible for a band to walk into a venue in Dublin and book a gig at the price most venues charge, without making a loss. And what band is going to bother putting all that effort into booking, promoting and organising a gig if you're gonna make a loss on it? By the by, if you do want to attend a gig with quality bands in a quality venue for less than €7 (ie €6, or €5 if you know the incredibly straightforward password), you could do a whole lot worse than check out some of the GigSmart organised gigs in Voodoo on a Friday night. Yer fiver includes a damn good indie/rawk club afterwards. Check out www.gigsmartireland.com for more info if you want. A gentleman always knocks twice A gentleman always asks nice

In theory they shouldn't really need to have a cover charge cos they have jacked up the price of pints which would cover the loss on the door. but that would be too nice of the clubs/venues and with the price of insurance them merc's and jag's aren't going to insure themselves 'and jesus did feed the fecophiliacs loaves and fish, more specifically pinched loaves and chocolate salmon'

three euro to see marc geary in ballycotton, nina hynes same venue same price, Fred for free in nancy spains and gasworks, gigs every day in the college bar, damien rice eoin coughlan and ian whitty in boole 4 in ucc for ten euro, now thats value ladies and gentlemen, welcome to cork the land of the cheap gig and home of the sultans of ping fc

I am always onside for a good bitch and moan about gig prices but is is a very long time since I've been to a gig for less than a fiver old money. Promotion is a pretty cut throat business and some people at the top end of the scale are milking it for all they are worth. However, not making a loss on a gig is a reasonable expectation for any venue owner. What is sadly lacking in this town are pubs that will put on bands to bring in punters with no cover charge. Long gone are places like the Underground who thrived on this. They used to have unknown bands there all the time and made their money on the booze. Bands starting out have no way to geting to play and improving their live skills without being able to guarantee a large number of paying punters. Ok, there are a few exceptions but most are happy enough to pump rot through their speakers (one of my locals here even plays the same "Hits Of.." cds on specific nights each week, 60s Tues, 70s Weds, 80's Thurs - if I hear Pat Benetar one more time...........grrrrr

SOUNDROOM -the night that I put on is based on this princple of putting really good quality bands on for a very decent price. So far the night has varied in price between €5 and €6, and the next night on November 6th is €5. Just to let you know that on the bill are ZEPPO/SPEEDMAN & OTRANOME, extremely good value I think you'll all agree! These are three really exciting bands, for €1.66! The bands get paid at the end of the night depending on the door takings, so if you feel strongly about keeping live music in dublin alive, this is a good night out for all the family, which doens't require bands to pay per play, or try to rip them off in any way. Log onto www.soundweb.ie for pic's from the last few nights and info on bands, mp3's etc... So far such really cool bands like The CrayonZ, The Things, Polar, Little Ghetto Boys and Earthquake Hair have played and the feedback from both the bands themselves and punters in attendance has been really positive. The bands are not expected to promote the night, except help out with flyers but even this isn't obligatory. Yes, it's true that they won't end the night millionaires, but Soundroom are taking all the risks on the night, and I'm sure a lot of bands agree that sometimes it's easier to play under a banner, like Soundroom or Gigsmart. I prefer to judge the success of a night by reactions, not figures and so far these gigs have been pretty well received. I hope they can continue and with help from bands and punters alike, they will. I know that people in the past have had bad experiences with the venue that Sounroom currently resides in, that being DA2, (this is for you too, playground psychotic person!! and I think I know who you are too!!) but to be honest found a problem with it. I know others have and that's unfortunate but I think new venues should be supported as they in turn can only benefit the scene. I think we should all pull together as the music scene is really happening and exciting at the moment so let's try and sustain this!!

Hello Nim, oh yeah I know that, I knew you weren't slagging!! And I heard it got sorted out in the end in quite a spectacular fashion anyway!! Fair play! :-)

Thanks, Nim... Yeah that would be cool, you are more than welcome! Maybe in January?? It'll be like Turner revisited, but without the electric shocks this time!!! :-)

It is honestly getting ridiculously expensive and difficult to play gigs in Dublin. One of my best friends lives in & plays in a band in Prague - and he just laughs when I tell him about the setup in dublin. In Prague his band play pubs and clubs all over the place every 2 or 3 weeks and they get paid, not much, but at least they're not making a loss. As a result of so many gigs, naturally his band gets tight and their live show is always improving. Contrast that to my own experiences in Dublin. We can really only play a gig every 3 months or so for the simple reason that cos of pay-to-play you have to bring your own crowd or the promoter simply won't let you play there again. So as a result, we're constantly drawing on a pool of 1-200 friends/workmates/musicians etc to ask them to come to our gigs. So we have to leave huge gaps between gigs so that those people don't become sick to teeth of us. And naturally that affects your development as a band and the confidence with which you play your live gigs. Does anyone know any venues outside of dublin, perhaps galway/cork/belfast that put on original bands and that have a crowd that turns up 'just to see who's playing' ??? know what I mean? You get that *all* the time in america but it seems not existent in dublin at least.

the whole showing up and see who's playing attitude is sadly dead in Galway because you know that there are only going to be cover bands playing. theres probably about 25 of them in galway and they all play the same songs, all that's different is the order of the songs. A sad state of affairs for the city that Toasted Heretic and The Stunning, but not surprising when you hear rumours of roisin dubhs closing down to become a trendy (read Wanky) bar 'and jesus did feed the fecophiliacs loaves and fish, more specifically pinched loaves and chocolate salmon'

It's very hard to get people to go to nights on spec nowadays, regardsless of if it's mid week or at the weekend. I just don't think it really happens any more, unless it's very cheap... One question: I know bands need to play gigs and it's very important if they can start to build up a live following etc, but why put up with pay per play?

I don't mean to continually mention GigSmart, but there really is no need to put up with pay to play gigs. You've got the likes of GigSmart and Soundroom trying to improve the scene. I've played in about 4 or 5 GigSmart gigs so far, and while we didn't always get paid much, the gigs are well organised with good crowds because all the bands involved are working together to help each other. There's nobody sitting there making a fortune off other people, and it's a great way to meet and stay in contact with other bands. Check it out: http://www.gigsmartireland.com A gentleman always knocks twice A gentleman always asks nice

it is bullshit, in all fairness to have to pay to provide a service is poor form 'and jesus did feed the fecophiliacs loaves and fish, more specifically pinched loaves and chocolate salmon'

glad this thread started turning on the clubs and left the bands alone otherwise i'd have to smack each one of you!!! because you'll give out paying €7 to see a band but you'll pay even more to see some hollywood movie by numbers and see no problem paying a tenner into some poxy niteclub.

Eh? I don't recall anyone even suggesting that the price of gigs might have something to do with the bands! We all know that where gigs are overpriced, it is almost exculsively the the fault of promoters. As has been lamented, there is virtually no venues that allow bands to play without being in danger of losing their own money or pulling such a poor crowd they will never get booked again. Nobody has a problem paying token charges into gigs - as you rightly point out people routinely pay it for crap night clubs and films. However I really do resent paying even 5 euro into a venue to see a band who will be lucky to get any money from the cover charge and often end up taking a hit themselves for the privilage of drinking that venues overpriced beer when the only reason I am there is to see the band. The current system is a no loose situation for for venues/promoters.

i agree it is way too expensive to go to big gigs in dublin, your far better off going to singer song writer nights, cheaper a better crowd and there is always at least one gem

Of course, we should really be bigging up those people who give bands a chance to play without excessive cost. So, Da2/Soundweb, the cheap gigs in the Viper rooms, the Ruby Sessions and the free before 9o'c indie session with Doug Sheridan in Viva, we salute you. We should stop our bitching and moaning and get off our asses to ensure that such nights are a roaring success, thus encouraging other venues to follow suit.

Cheers "Vent My spleen!!" Appreciate it!!! Gald to know that someone notices and cares!!

heres one for you all holloween night da2 the return off the going underground acoustic sessions featured before were mundy,the walls,blink,west 70s,colm querney,clan zu (from oz)ro byrne,callan (ex power of dreams)...next thur 31st live are ,steph (the subtonics)..brown..the crayonz..pugwash..sundogs..j pyro..and to very very special guests...and with no cover charge to this event which will be continuing every thur night ..first act on 9 0 clock .....

theres a very good/long thread bout this over on thumped.com just imagine... right this is a hypothetical world if a band books the music centre here in dublin it costs €700 the venue holds 600 ppl we'll be realistic saying there is a 50 ppl guestlist and we'll say there is a €5 cover charge so basically we'd be looking at €2750 being taken on the door minus the €700 leaves the band/bands with €2000 now you cant fault that, and also you're gonna have a great gig cos 600 ppl will give you some buzz, and the crowd i'm sure would have a good night same thing 600ppl=good night the only problem in this beautiful scenario is that not many small bands can pull 600 ppl... even if they are truly excellent... so maybe its a thing about the gig going society here in dublin that enforces pay to play and not the 'stingy' venue promoters... ie. if a band books a monday night, and brings no-one the venue is gonna lose cash by hiring the staff to work that night... so therefore they require somesort of deposit ie. pay to play i'm not condoning the whoile thing cos i'm in a band myself but if i could get 600ppl in to see us i'd have no probs paying for a venue... unfortunately i cant so i have to try to break even but i still aim at bigger stages for our band to play on... for example, i'd much rather play the music centre and just break even than do a smaller gig like (insert venue name here) and make 50 quid. thats just me though mick... http://www.polarofficial.com

"ie. if a band books a monday night, and brings no-one the venue is gonna lose cash by hiring the staff to work that night... so therefore they require somesort of deposit ie. pay to play" This isn't pay to play. Pay to play is where the band is obliged to pay money to the venue/promoter to play the gig without any hope of making any money back. Renting a staffed venue for a night is a different thing altogether. I have yet to hear of concrete eveidence of pay-to-play being prevalent in Dublin or anywhere in Ireland. I would hate to be in TBMC with 600 people (actually, I have been, once, when the Streokes played there - it stank). Realistically, it can hold about half that many comfortably. If it had 600 in, half of them wouldn't be able to see anything cos they'd be trapped in the bar or in the hall!