I dont normally get dragged into these debates ,however, this is issue has been raised before and it tends to wind me up.

What exactly is 'the scene'? The last so called 'scene' i recall being talked about at such length was the whole 'Whelan's thing' which the Rags so brilliantly took the rip out of.

I think, as punters, music lovers etc you have to take a step back and just enjoy the music you enjoy without letting outside journalistic opinions affect you either way. I personally feel that the live circuit has somewhat quietened down lately. I could be talking thru my rear as I have not been to as many gigs lately but i do feel that the buzz which was there 2 years ago has dimmed. We were very very lucky, whether you like these acts or not:

Director, Blizzards, Republic of Loose, Immediate(ignoring the split), Royseven, Channel 1, Mainline, God is an Astronaut, Ham Sandwich, The Rags, Chakras (probably growing now more so)The Chapters, Dry County, The Things... I wont go on and apologies for those I have ommitted but I dont want to get to boring. There is something there for everyone, whatever your taste & we got all these bands in the space of 18 months! Thats fantastic and surely should be used as inspiration as to what a great crop of bands we do have in this country.

There has to be a lull at times. I think its unfair to class the current music trends as 's**te' however. Thats a personal opinion and one which should not be forced onto people (not saying you did Parton). If bands are being talked about on the same threads by different people on many sites then surely the vast majority of people deem that band worthy of talking? Your always going to find friends and family at gigs. Gigs are a costly affair for up coming acts and there is financial pressure to not only fill the venue and pay the lighting/sound engineers & rental but also get heads in so the venue does well and has you back. Basic talk I know but ultimately, you need your friends to come along when your starting out.

I am wondering which part exactly the above post has a problem with. Is it journalism or is it the s**te bands, is it the new acts or the old acts? Does all of this add up to make the 'scene'? If so, then its an absolute essential part of that process of a band developing and until something else comes along, then thats the way its going to be for quite some time.

Cheers

Carlsberg,

I agree with you regarding two years ago that these groups you mentioned were up and coming; some of whom have gone to success, some who well; haven't. And my point is, those that haven't; well; they probably never will be, so endless plugging and eulogising thse guys by people in some media cirlces "cos they're local" is b*llocks....

Part of the problem with their development and progress could be down to lack of f**kin business ethics....its not a cool thing to say I know. I think alot of it comes down to simply this...alot of bands started living the lifestyle and believing they were all that before actually coming up with an album....resting on empty laurels...plus it doesnt help that alot of "charity" style journos consistantly "big up" these guys all the time......to be quite honest, even out of the bands you have mentioned, there are maybe three/four who have quality f**king songs ands its probably no conincidence that they are the very guys envied and face backlash from both the failed musicians; who have all the clothes but non of the songs...and the journos who having read HST believe they are the next Lester f**king Bangs.....

By the way, I have no affiliation to any bands. I just spentmany years seeing gigs by lots of bands.

And for my money, Soviet Filter have the best songs on cd from an unsigned band i have ever heard.

Thats just an opinion though...As i said i will probably have the angry mob after me now....

There's nothing wrong with hype - it's half the fun of music. The other half is saying what bands you hate.

No great music ever came from a 'scene'. First great music, then the scene comes afterwards. A scene is a parked bandwagon.

Me, when I get bored with a venue and the bands that usually play there, I go somewhere else and listen to a different type of music. Last week I went to hear some Tinariwen-style North African folk music with scuzzy rock guitars. It was brilliant. Also, I've been trying to get into country music - Johnny Cash's Fulsom live album, Gram Parsons (Did anyone else see the Johnny Cash Show on TG4 on Christmas Day last? From 1970-something? Brilliant. Jules, did you see it?). So, when I went to see Wilco this week (sorry, forgot to say, in case you don't know me I live in Paris) I already felt musically 'refreshed' - and I could pick out Wilco's country and blues sounds. And I really enjoyed the Wilco show.

So: listening to other types of music makes music sound better.

this again?

i never raised it before and i've been around music for the last 15 years.....just think there are alot fantasists out there in "music journalism" and in this parochial love in.....not to mention an excessive amount of sub standard artists who have grand delusions....

fed up with it is all; i'm entitled to express this opinion...

i just cant go along the nonsense notion "oooh its brand new and irish, so it must be good" bollocks anymore....i think was reading hotpress and some music blogs by journos on the web that sent me over the edge on it.....

I don't have much to add here, great thread though. Nice to see some debate going on.

I've been living in Dublin for about five years now and I never felt much of an affinity with local bands. Thats more my fault than theirs, I'm sure there's some great bands out there if I was bothered to find them, but I'm not. I have more music than I can listen to right now, so I'm less likely to take chances on something unproven. I know that makes me sound completely lame and unadventurous, but thats the way it is.

I do listen to stations like Phantom alot, in the hope that I'll hear something that grabs my attention. It's rare that it does though, maybe my standards are too high! The current angular "eastern bloc" bands do little for me, so in that sense, yes I'd agree that that scene is a little over-hyped. These days NME wet their knickers over any new haircut, its hard to take journalists seriously sometimes.



Whether its true or not, I like that quote.

Is it safe to assume your problem is more with music journalism than the music?

Why would you let a journalist or anyone for that matter dictate what you should and shouldn't listen to? Music, like any artform, is matter of personal preference. If you don't like something don't listen to it/don't attend that gig.

Likewise, if you don't like the modern standards of music journalism then don't read it. Surely it's that simple?

well, thats a fair enough point i guess, but it is hard to sometimes find the time to suss stuf yourself and so I would rely on the recommendations of journalists..isnt that the business they are in?

I just think that while there is a feast of acts in terms of quantity about at the moment...i really feel that alot of it isnt worth a toss.....
And i think that in addition to this...the journos and commenators alike beacuse they fraternise with the bedroom rockstar brigade....you know who you are...
find it difficult to simply say, "well yer nice lads, but the record is crap...and ye need to do better" isntead of championing stuff on the basis thats its new and local....

Mainline I suppose would epitomise what i'm talking about, endless bulls**t about record deals and huge tours etc etc etc etc etc....

I went to see them....this was a journalist who cant recall right now wrote that they were exciting, and worth checking out before they get huge...

sweet jaysus...it was like the dole que in 1984 with guitars...talk about throwback....

Now that is my opinion but the fact that the only thing they have released of any significance is an EP, yet everybody speaks of them as some kind of BRMC except better.....

Look, I dont have any affliation to anyone but i felt if i did not name a group who would come to mind i'd be slaughtered and accused of hiding.......

I guess my gripe would be with both "journos" and the bands......

"The current angular "eastern bloc" bands do little for me"

Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree - there's far too much XTC/Wire-influenced angular spiky guitar stuff at the moment. I'd expect a lot of the bands on the list someone posted above to die off in the next 6-12 months. There's only so often you can play the TBMC.

I don't really think there is a 'scene' in Dublin (can't really speak for the rest of Ireland because I live in Dublin) at the moment. I also don't really think there is a music-journalist scene that hypes things in comparrison to the ridiculous nature of music journalism in Britain.

Most of the new bands I like seem to all be doing quite eclectic things seperate from each other. I don't really think there's a core of bands who all play similar stuff like Frames circle in the late 90s.

Regarding newish bands, I do think there is some really exciting stuff happening. In 2006 / 2007 for the first time in Ireland, I came across new / unsigned acts who I would equate with being on the same level as acts of similar maturity internationally. I've mentioned these bands a good few times on this board; Codes, Fight Like Apes, Ham Sandwich, Cap Pas Cap, Stagger Lee. These are all, in my opinion great bands.

I am of the opinion that those who complain about crap scenes, crap club nights, crap bands, crap pubs, crap whatever, aren't looking hard enough. You have to dig to find diamonds.

Of course, there is a lot of s**t too, but that goes for everything, only a small proportion of it will be quality.

"I am of the opinion that those who complain about crap scenes, crap club nights, crap bands, crap pubs, crap whatever, aren't looking hard enough. You have to dig to find diamonds".

I have, I "dug" for the past 4 years or so and all I found for the most part were bedroom rockstars, guys with all the clothes and haircuts but non of the conviction; and more importantly NON of the songs. I agree with you regarding Britain, most of the music journalism is dreadfully written crap...formulated..but that has always been the case. (Stuart Bailie being the exception to the rule for me).

While I am no fan of the Frames at all; they have been quite sucessful and have sold more records than the Mainline, Things, Humanzis, of this world ever will..... as have the acts from that "scene"...some just didnt realise that ye can travel beyond the pale.....

Spend more time on the songs lads, less on the makeup and pete doherty/mick jagger circa 72 impersonations....

Agree with ye regarding Ham Sandwich, Delorentos and Fight Like Apes....Havent heard Stagger Lee so cant comment....But I have been going to gigs and gigs and gigs all the time over here to source new music...There seems to be alot of bravado and very little in the way of balls and actual songwriting ability....

Delorentos, Mighty Stef, Director, Hybrasil and Twin Kranes would be the acts I would rate as being capable of becoming internationally successful....

I'm sorry, but unlike yourself I have to pay to go to these gigs and pay for cds (thats not a dig, just a fact)......so I'm a little choosy as a consumer......as opposed to reviewer.....

Parton, Una is far more than a reviewer and has contributed so much, in my opinion, to the unsigned bands area of the irish gig scene to be dismissed as such. I have to say i find this debate extremely flawed. I know Cluas is there to allow you to vent your anger/opinions/thoughts but i really am struggling to find any depth in your argument. So there are bands we like and bands we dont. Journo's whom we respect and others we feel are talking rubbish. Thats the industry, thats the way it is and thats the way it will always be.

Paying to go to a gig is a gamble for some as I know money is a restraint at times. But for me, its part of the fun. Paying into a gig (YES PEOPLE I DO PAY INTO GIGS!) and hoping that maybe, just maybe, in YOUR opinion, you might find a little Gem. Priceless.

Cheers

Listen, I just happen to feel that alot is being made about the curent crop of music in this town, and for the most part in my opinion, (and remember I am allowed to have one).....it's not warranted, while I think we both agree there are some excellent prospects out there and some exciting things happening....there is not alot...

I am simply of the opinion that the songwriting isn't there...simple as that...And it doesn't matter how new, interesting, hard working blah blah blah...if you dont have the songs you dont cut it...and generally speaking the public wont buy it...

I dont know any bands personally or have any affiliation to any groups etc etc...this is just the opinion of someone who goes to alot of new music and would read alot of reviews to get some direction on new stuff...I dont have the time as most people dont to go searching and searching myself...if we all did, there wouldn't be a need for music journalism...

The public buys a lot of s**te. Richmond Fontaine are really good, with an excellent lyricist and they aint exactly storming the charts. The last gig I saw, the man Willy was selling his own merch for gawd's sakes....

As for bedroom rock stars, you gotta start somewhere....

parton - can you name names please? what irish JOURNALISTS are guilty of hyping? and what irish BANDS are guilty of getting hyped? Just so we can have some meat to bite into

"I have, I "dug" for the past 4 years or so and all I found for the most part were bedroom rockstars, guys with all the clothes and haircuts but non of the conviction; and more importantly NON of the songs."

Fight Like Apes
Parks
Stagger Lee
Delorentos
Codes
Halves
Dry County
Ham Sandwich
Cap Pas Cap
Super Extra Bonus Party
Maximum Joy @ Kennedys
Kaboogie @ Kennedys
Anitcs @ Crawdaddy

if you're so negative and insistent that everything is s**te, then go to these gigs and come back to us. I promise you that you will come back a less outraged music fan.

Yeah I'm also bored of people always compaining about the local "scene", like it's the health service or something and they're somehow being deprived of a statutory obligation to have bands fitting their exact tastes playing in a venue near them... If you've really explored all the new groups that are around and dislike all of them, then either A) don't bother with local bands or else B) start making your own music and do something productive about the percieved lack of talent (and in the process, see how difficult it is exactly to create something good and to get people interested in it).

"Yeah I'm also bored of people always compaining about the local "scene", like it's the health service or something and they're somehow being deprived of a statutory obligation to have bands fitting their exact tastes playing in a venue near them... "

well put Dermot

i totally agree with that


if you're fed up with the scene, just try to listen to other types of music from different countries (you don't know me, i'm french, lighting tech, living in ireland for 3 years now). when you'll go back to listen to the scene, you'll finally appreciate it.
some of dublin bands are doing quality stuff, but i can understand why you're bored, there is so many bands playing the same type of music...
i like a lot the dublin scene because it is so rich concerning gigs and bands and nights in venues.
i like the fact of being able to go out every night of the week and be sure i will see a band playing somewhere. i like the indie dance rock stuff going on at the moment and i'm not getting bored of it because i am also listening to loads of other styles of music such as latin music, french rap, spanish ska, gipsy jazz, dub, electro...


concerning journalists, i'm reading loads of magazines but don't really care about journalists' point of view, i'm just focussing on the names of the bands and have a listen to see if I am liking it or not...

If you're fed up with the scene you could always form a band?

And call it "Art Brut".

there's lots of decent bands in ireland, but regarding sales, it means sod all. director sold 15,000 cds, the blizzards have sold over 13,000, and humanzi and the immediate sold over 3,000. all were on labels.

i can't see any of those acts mentioned selling over 2,500 in ireland without a deal, and until that happens people in other countries probably won't pay any attention.

music journalists in this country are fairly poor as a whole anyway.

Did Humanzi sell that many records? I remember reading a hatchet piece in the Irish Times (Carroll I think) where he compared their 600-odd album sales with the backing of a major label with The Immediate notching up 3000 or so with considerably less backing. Of course poor old Humanzi faced a classic Irish backlash for having the temerity to sign a major label deal without going through the usual grind of touring around the country playing in s**thole venues to 12 people for 3 years. I just hope that the Humanzi experience hasn't soured the attitude of the UK labels to Irish talent, as they managed to throw away their opportunity by going on one long bender for their first UK tour and appearing on stage drunk and sloppy. Ah, rock'n'roll. I imagine their manager's stock is considerably lower than it was during The Thrills' heyday anyway.

As above. Patron, I asked this question a week ago but still no reply. Dont you just love people like Patron who run around shouting wolf and then don't bother to back up their arguements? What an idiot.

"Dont you just love people like Patron who run around shouting wolf and then don't bother to back up their arguements? What an idiot. "

I was out of the country. I dont live on the cluas board so this is the first time I checked it....

regarding bands, I think had you read my previous posts I named some bands that I felt were not really good enough..its just my opinion....
And regarding journalists, well to be honest I think that obviously there are a number of people writing who have a genuine interest on whats going on and convey this in the articles they write....despite difference of oipinion with Carlsberg I think that Una would be a good example of a journalist from what I've read writes farily honestly and just seems to love music....thats a quality that seems to seep away from some music critics over time....and since I posted before I did some reading this week on different websites and magazines etc....

I had given some thought to this and to be honest I would say from what I've read, with the exception of Jim Carroll, Una and maybe John Maher, I really couldnt give a toss for the rest......thats as honest as I'm willing to be....I've no doubt your probably a journo yourself....you sound like you want to argue about something....

Regarding Humanzi...they are supposed to be really nice blokes....I think it was too much...too soon..too fast and the guy who signed them should be fired......2m notes is a ridiculous gamble to take on a debut....

Oh yeah and lads, if some of you dont think there is a "scene"...

I quote the cluas tag line...."lending an ear to the Irish Music Scene"...cheers