Gar Veteran Member Posts:1676  
| 7/17/2006 11:41 AM |
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With both Turn and The Rags (although the latter never managed to release a full album) preparing to call it a day, is it only a matter of time before a few other Irish bands follow suit? Who could be next to fade away?
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benni Advanced Member Posts:947
| 7/17/2006 11:44 AM |
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The Rags are splitting? Really?
Ain't they playing Leccy Piccy?
Thats mad... they werent my thing at all but I wouldve seen them as a fairly up and coming band with a pretty decent following....
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palace Basic Member Posts:392
| 7/17/2006 11:51 AM |
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i suspect you'll see a couple of those "new breed" types... humanzi, blizzards, marshalls, immediate, director etc.. etc... split by the end of 2007...
...that's as much as i have to offer, i think
oh... and damien rice - he's split, hasn't he?
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
| 7/17/2006 11:55 AM |
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The Marshalls, The Immediate and Director have been going, slowly gathering support for a few years - doubt they'll split any time soon
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| 7/17/2006 11:58 AM |
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unless their next album is 'successful' i'd lay my life on the frames splitting up
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 7/17/2006 12:12 PM |
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don't 'worry' The Frames will never go away.
Turn were exciting in the beginning. But the problem with so many bands like them who seem to purely seek commercial success is that they never come up with a killer tune.
If you're 100% into the art of music, the creation and development of a personal form, then 'a hit' doesn't really matter, does it, in fact, if you're good, quality will follow, generally. But if you're about the projection of a popular, fashionable image, and are yearning for popular, fashional recognition - like most bands - and if you don't come up with a song that can make it on CD:UK, then, what's the point?
Regarding the bands mentioned: Director have done it with 'Reconnect'. The Marshals have yet to really perform, and The Immediate are a much more artistically whole band than a lot of people give them credit for.
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MullyAdvanced Member Posts:849
| 7/17/2006 12:59 PM |
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Future Kings of Spain are one I'm worried about.
Album party 8mths ago, still no sign of its release & in the mean time rumours abound that the label (Red Flag) has gone bust.
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/17/2006 1:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gar
Turn ... preparing to call it a day
Where'd you hear that? They're more of an Ollie Cole solo project + a few others at this point anyway. |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 7/17/2006 1:43 PM |
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From Turn's MySpace page:
So!
As some of you might have already guessed, at the end of this year Turn will call it a day. It is very sad for myself Ian and Gavin as this has been our whole life now for 7 or 8 years. It has not been an easy decision to make. There are many reasons for this decision both personal and professional. Everyone in the band is working on other music right now.
I have started work on my own album and am working on Gavin's record also. Ian is working on a record with his sister. All in all there has been some great times, some magical moments and some awful lows. We have struggled through for years, deals and no deals. I think Ireland is a hard place for a rock band to survive.
I personally have been working more and more on my own and really working towards the point i am at now which is making my own record. I am off to Germany at the end of the month to finish it. I hope some of you will follow its progress. I will start a new my space for now and keep a blog from the studio. I will also work on a new website etc. I am really excited about the music i am making and really scared, which is good, it has been a long time since i have been scared and excited
You will also be able to keep up with Gavin's progress on the old my space.
It is a very sad day. I believed in this band with my whole heart and this has been one of life's great let downs for me. The last record deal we signed was an awful mistake and relations with the company quickly became impossible and ultimately led us to this point. I think i have been ready to make my record for a long time and the last few years have been very difficult for me and the band. I will miss those boys and this band terribly. We will tour one last time to kick out the rock and roll and say goodbye
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klootfanAdvanced Member Posts:851
| 7/17/2006 1:45 PM |
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A lot of Irish bands should call it a day as soon as they begin. What is the primary purpose of forming a band. Is it the success or the joy of playing ? I suppose this varies from band to band.
Is there really any point in forming a band if the musical output is not original enough to warrant its existence. Or is this just a case of enjoying playing a part in a band. Alot of irish bands just rehash old ideas.
How many Irish bands have managed to escape from the "college friends" back gigs to gigs where the audience is made up of fans who genuinely came to the band because of the music.
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 7/17/2006 1:52 PM |
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harsh but also fair Kloot.
There are VERY few Irish bands that I would class as original. Earlier this year, I completely lost faith in the Irish (well, Dublin mainly) music scene, as I believed a lot of the so called 'up and coming' bands to be musically redundant. But recently, I've invested some time in checking out more and more bands who names I know but material I don't, and was pleasantly surprised on a few occasions.
My criteria for enjoying a new band is originality and energy, and if they are going to just stick to an existing genre or rock/indie narrative then they better do it bloody well.
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/17/2006 1:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by klootfan
What is the promary purpose of forming a band.
To meet girls, duh. |
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 7/17/2006 2:01 PM |
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heh heh
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/17/2006 2:06 PM |
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By the way, I think it's kinda bulls**t to blame a label for lack of success. Obviously if a label signs a band then they believe that they can do something with that band, if the band then delivers a crappy album then it's not the label's fault. For this to happen 2 or 3 times to a band then it's a good indication that the band is probably s**t.
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palaceBasic Member Posts:392
| 7/17/2006 2:12 PM |
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look beneath the surface and there is great music in ireland, though...
the charalambides gig i was at on thursday had two great supports, one more electronic drone stuff (papercut) and one more free folk stuff (agitated radio pilot)... then look at some of the independent record companies... slow loris put out some great experimental stuff and on a slightly larger scale, you've got the trust me i'm a thief and out on a limb labels... songwriters - martin finke is the greatest poet these lands have seen... what else... got an ep by richer than astronauts - that's great... skinny wolves / u:mack / ballroom of romance highlight loads of great local bands... also redneck manifesto - not many are better than these lads...
...no need to lose faith in irish music - just dig a little deeper...
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
| 7/17/2006 2:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by palace
... skinny wolves / u:mack / ballroom of romance highlight loads of great local bands... also redneck manifesto - not many are better than these lads...
...no need to lose faith in irish music - just dig a little deeper...
and ne'er a truer word was spoken
that lot put on a ridiculous amount of amazing nights
They're just not very mainstream so dont get a lot of exposure
Altho Skinny Wolves did get club of the month in NME a few months back!!!  |
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bonzoBasic Member Posts:364
| 7/17/2006 3:39 PM |
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Another to add to the list would be Pilotlight (formerly Polar). They've been in London for ages and saw their homecoming gig this weekend. Average doesn't describe it.
I don't think all Irish bands lack originality. I think a lot of bands in Ireland are driven by singer/songwriters who really use the band as a vehicle for their songs. Instead of just being the songwriter in the band, that band member overshadows the band.
Bands that are original include Lotus Lullaby and the Republic of Loose in my humble opinion.
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kavobagginsBasic Member Posts:199
| 7/17/2006 4:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gar
With both Turn and The Rags (although the latter never managed to release a full album) preparing to call it a day, is it only a matter of time before a few other Irish bands follow suit? Who could be next to fade away?
The Rags actually have a new single coming out soon:
http://www.eyebrowy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1571
As for Turn, Ollie was dj-ing in the Globe last night and I gave him a drunken b0llocking for not playing Oxegen this year. Obviously the band breaking up is a fairly genuine and understandable reason for not playing! |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 7/17/2006 4:26 PM |
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Okay, mixed reports then because I was told by a number of people that The Rags had called it quits. They are a decent band so hopefully they stick it out and progress further.
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bonzoBasic Member Posts:364
| 7/17/2006 4:35 PM |
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The Rags are quality - hate to see them split.
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milkmanBasic Member Posts:119
| 7/17/2006 4:35 PM |
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as far as i'm aware, the rags had an internal dispute some time ago which led to certain members leaving and therfore lots fo songs being put aside.
its a shame, they were good.
i believe they have to honour a few commitments ('lectric pic etc) so they got some new personnel in, and will release that single.
hopefully they'll continue, a lot of potential there.
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ctrlaltdeleteBasic Member Posts:268
| 7/17/2006 4:38 PM |
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Turn are rubbish. Good riddance.
Ireland could do with culling a few more of its dreary, bottom feeder indie no-hopers.
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milkmanBasic Member Posts:119
| 7/17/2006 4:41 PM |
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otherwise, there are lots of talented bands working away, and the"scene" feels very healthy at the moment.
unfortunately very few unsigned bands played oxegen and very few will play electric picnic.
there's a two tier system of talent appearing a little - talent with deals and talent without. (obviously there's also crap with deals and crap without, but we'll ignore that).
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klootfanAdvanced Member Posts:851
| 7/17/2006 5:12 PM |
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quote:
unfortunately very few unsigned bands played oxegen and very few will play electric picnic.
Is this because they dont have the connections or is it because they are just not good enough. Should irish bands be given slots at festivals just because they are Irish or should quality be the real test. That said, the lack of unsigned bands at oxegen was pretty obvious, so im not sure if quality was a factor here.
I know im being a little harsh here, but thrust me, down through the years ive gone to bucket loads of gigs of small irish bands and im really coming around to the opinion that alot of them just are not up to the standard...especially when you look at the UK. The UK is having a real boom in successful new bands, and NO its not all down to good PR...its good music.. the artic monkeys, the kooks, hard fi, bloc party... all good bands with good tunes. And a lot of them just kids. Can it be said that if the music is good enough, success will follow ? |
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petethedrummer New Member Posts:38
| 7/17/2006 6:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by klootfan
I know im being a little harsh here, but thrust me, down through the years ive gone to bucket loads of gigs of small irish bands and im really coming around to the opinion that alot of them just are not up to the standard...
Have you been to small gigs in other countries yet?? their small bands are also muck. I've been to a few in the UK and America and I haven't seen any difference in quality whatsoever. I'm sure if some of our higher quality small bands were based in London or New York they would get more 'recognition' or 'success'(both highly subjective terms). |
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/17/2006 6:31 PM |
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Pete makes a good point, it's not really fair to say that the UK is producing bands that are doing well therefore there are no bad UK bands. The Kooks/Arctics (neither of whom I care for) etc. are obviously all a cut above your average band playing on the local circuit but I'd imagine that there are tons of terrible bands bumming around Camden.
The worst band I've ever seen was one I saw in the Bowery Ballroom in New York last may called Morning Wood. Turn were/are pretty bad but they piss all over them.
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PunchbowlBasic Member Posts:205
| 7/17/2006 6:48 PM |
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Well, I don't agree that Turn were that bad.. 'In Position' is a very fine song, and when they got it right Live, they got it very right indeed... But the problem isn't just down to quality. It isn't down the lack of good songs (Look at say, Blink for example) it's down to this countires demographic. We spend so long looking at NME, TOTP, RADIO2, SMASH HITS for guidance that Irish bands have became a bit of a joke. The whole fact that we can generalise them and group them into the 'Irish' band tag, sets them up. Also, with all due respect, their are some terrible, terrible bands out ploughing the pub rock furrow and they are having a negative affect on a lot of would-be punters.
When I was discovering music back in 1990 or so, Irish bands were on the cusp. They were huge. Saturdays in town would all be about 'free park' gigs, McGonagles etc. MTV were playing A House, the radio was filled with Power of Dreams, they were great days, but none of these bands actually came good. They were great bands too, and most people got frustrated supporting them. It's almost as if they let people down.
Ironicly, we now have a situation where I think Irish bands, if good enough, have a great chance to be big. Director will go global. Bell X1 are locally massive, and this soon begins to tell internationally so expect them to too. This success however, involves the bands in question distancing themselves from this very Irishness.
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/17/2006 9:30 PM |
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Speaking of Irish bands. I notice Humanzi's album came out last week and there's been little talk of it round these parts. Thus far they haven't really done enough for me live/on the radio/on the TV to make me consider parting with cash for the record so I'm wondering what people's takes on it are. Have they converted any of the nay sayers?
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| 7/17/2006 11:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Unicron
Speaking of Irish bands. I notice Humanzi's album came out last week and there's been little talk of it round these parts.
..really can't see much coming from them in the future, seen them live and the package of image/attitude/music is just so formulaic. Really like the single Fix The Cracks but heard that and you've heard it all.
Have the potential to get hyped up in NME for a week.
I think Channel One are on the same label - much more potential(in their music).
Director's single is by far the strongest I've heard from the new breed of Irish bands, excellent song. |
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dudleyBasic Member Posts:124
| 7/17/2006 11:26 PM |
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Most Irish bands do suck.
Most American bands suck too. Most of every art form from every country sucks 8)
You just have to sift through it and find yer diamonds!
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deraBasic Member Posts:163
| 7/18/2006 1:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by palace
look beneath the surface and there is great music in ireland, though...
the charalambides gig i was at on thursday had two great supports, one more electronic drone stuff (papercut) and one more free folk stuff (agitated radio pilot)... then look at some of the independent record companies... slow loris put out some great experimental stuff and on a slightly larger scale, you've got the trust me i'm a thief and out on a limb labels... songwriters - martin finke is the greatest poet these lands have seen... what else... got an ep by richer than astronauts - that's great... skinny wolves / u:mack / ballroom of romance highlight loads of great local bands... also redneck manifesto - not many are better than these lads...
...no need to lose faith in irish music - just dig a little deeper...
ay, very much agree with this. look for the music that's not, y'know, screaming about itself (hm, sort of a rubbish way to put it, but anyway)
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Thomas WalshNew Member Posts:48
| 7/18/2006 4:22 AM |
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"Shoot me down in flames if I should tell a lie" as Dirk McQuickly once said but after 3 albums in Ireland and 2 in Australia PUGWASH (Me) will release "Jollity" on the 30th of October in England through Proper Distribution and then a European release will follow in early 2007 (France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Holland).
I'm not splitting up with meself!! The good will out, no-one gives a s**t about what I do but believe me or not I don't care if they do!! I get invited to play nowhere by nobody but I BELIEVE in what I do and that will NEVER change.....
Don't believe the f**king hype ladies and gentlemen, it's very simple really.
Love - Thomas.x
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 7/18/2006 9:29 AM |
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good thread and i agree with most of it (which is strange and unusual)
i notice someone mentioned humanzi and i aint going to go there (see previous threads) but i did notice the lack of excitement and coverage.
turn? ordinary, ordinary band but they got three albums out which is much more than many ordinary bands can muster
a cull of irish indie bands is long overdue but i always assumed that marriage, kids and mortgages would take care of that. i blame the property market for the current state of irish indie rock! hey, it could be a new topic for david mcwilliams to explore!
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
| 7/18/2006 10:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Unicron
Speaking of Irish bands. I notice Humanzi's album came out last week and there's been little talk of it round these parts.
Taken from Humanzi's site -
our debut album "TREMORS" will be released this friday(21st) in ireland and on monday(24th) in the uk.
So it aint out yet! Got good reviews so far from what I've seen.
Incidently - they're doing an instore gig in HMV on Fri for the launch. |
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/18/2006 10:56 AM |
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Ah I stand corrected, I saw a (favourable) review in the ticket last week and assumed that it had been released last Friday and was surprised that no one had mentioned it yet.
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mickBasic Member Posts:411
| 7/18/2006 12:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bonzo
Another to add to the list would be Pilotlight (formerly Polar). They've been in London for ages and saw their homecoming gig this weekend. Average doesn't describe it.
bonzo,
firstly nice one for coming along on saturday, i know you've always taken an interest in our band and its much appreciated... apologies you didnt enjoy the gig. we tried a few new songs for the 1st time live and they didnt go exactly as planned and definitely broke up our set. we thought it was a good idea to air them here first to a receptive crowd who knew the set and would be interested in new material but in hindsight it probably wasnt the best idea as i think alot was expected of us as "the band who went to london to make it big" and we probably should have stuck to a set we were more comfortable with and had played in. hindsights a great thing though.
other than the few new tunes i dont think we'd a below average gig but different strokes for different folks.
on the whole 'slow death' of our band... personally i dont think one bad gig makes a bad band, especially at our level where things like a consistent sound engineer are beyond our financial means (this isnt supposed to be an excuse but more an insight into how outside factors can effect the consistency of a small band's live show), and at the moment things have been going very well for us... 95% of the people at the gig enjoyed it, we've been getting really great press and reviews both here and the uk and alot of people are interested in our band and our music, so i really dont see how a bad gig in one persons opinion equates to a 'slow death'.
anyway, again apologies you didnt enjoy the gig,
mick |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 7/18/2006 12:29 PM |
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I reckon Stagger Lee are the next Irish band to pop.........it's just that dodgy bass player that they have!!!
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/18/2006 7:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by palace
oh... and damien rice - he's split, hasn't he?
Currently on tour in the US opening for Fiona Apple. |
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deraBasic Member Posts:163
| 7/18/2006 7:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mick
quote:
Originally posted by bonzo
Another to add to the list would be Pilotlight (formerly Polar). They've been in London for ages and saw their homecoming gig this weekend. Average doesn't describe it.
bonzo,
firstly nice one for coming along on saturday, i know you've always taken an interest in our band and its much appreciated... apologies you didnt enjoy the gig. we tried a few new songs for the 1st time live and they didnt go exactly as planned and definitely broke up our set. we thought it was a good idea to air them here first to a receptive crowd who knew the set and would be interested in new material but in hindsight it probably wasnt the best idea as i think alot was expected of us as "the band who went to london to make it big" and we probably should have stuck to a set we were more comfortable with and had played in. hindsights a great thing though.
other than the few new tunes i dont think we'd a below average gig but different strokes for different folks.
on the whole 'slow death' of our band... personally i dont think one bad gig makes a bad band, especially at our level where things like a consistent sound engineer are beyond our financial means (this isnt supposed to be an excuse but more an insight into how outside factors can effect the consistency of a small band's live show), and at the moment things have been going very well for us... 95% of the people at the gig enjoyed it, we've been getting really great press and reviews both here and the uk and alot of people are interested in our band and our music, so i really dont see how a bad gig in one persons opinion equates to a 'slow death'.
anyway, again apologies you didnt enjoy the gig,
mick
I've never heard your music but my friend saw you (he may have done sound for you actually) at the Barfly recently and he liked it. Just to say :) /totally random |
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| 7/18/2006 10:55 PM |
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Most Irish bands from what I can see don't want to tour. How are they going to build a fanbase if they won't hit the road ??
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| 7/19/2006 1:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkO
Most Irish bands from what I can see don't want to tour. How are they going to build a fanbase if they won't hit the road ??
...yeah why tour when you can just stay in Ireland and hope to be a Hotpress darling and Whelans A-celeb!!?
Regardless of my previous comments, Humanzi are doing it the positive way and going on UK tours and other spots as a support band. An Irish band with potential should have the ambition to do the same.
Was listening to a Whipping Boy interview on the radio a few years ago and they said one of their biggest mistakes was not going on the road after they released Heartworm - as a consequence there was little attention from the UK. Ireland is just too small a market. Sell 200 singles and you get a chart position...G-g-g-galway |
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petethedrummerNew Member Posts:38
| 7/19/2006 9:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkO
Most Irish bands from what I can see don't want to tour. How are they going to build a fanbase if they won't hit the road ??
do you realise how much it costs? of course all irish bands want to tour ...jesus christ. If you're a signed band i'm sure you are at the mercy of the money the record company gives you. which you have to pay back anyways.
If you're unsigned you have to make sure all the members of your band can get simultaneous time off, have the money saved. then you have the argument of what the saved money should be spent on? recording? more gear? your own personal enjoyment?
It's hard enough to get out of work early to get to a gig in dublin nevermind going on a bloody tour...and so what if someone is happy playing around Ireland? |
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markyedisonNew Member Posts:83
| 7/20/2006 1:46 AM |
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this is the second post from marko in a few days to make this point and he is right.
any band that is unwilling to make that effort, to put in the time and , yes, the money themselves and promote their arses off, will not and should not be successful.
all bands that break thru, regardless of whether they are good or not, have done so because of the tremendous workload and sacrifices that they have made.
most bands eventually die off because they can't or won't make those sacrifices/ choices. anyone in a band(or solo) who is not willing to put the band ahead of work/ family/ love etc. will never break.
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FluxBasic Member Posts:124
| 7/20/2006 2:47 AM |
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The Thrills? Never worked a day in their lives. Fairy liquid hands.
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markyedisonNew Member Posts:83
| 7/20/2006 4:53 AM |
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the thrills aren't real. they were grown in a petri dish from the remains of some mutant bacteria that choked to death on peter andre's s**te. 
The bacteria are believed to have been located in Jordan's mouth. 
but i suppose every rule must have an exception  |
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PunchbowlBasic Member Posts:205
| 7/21/2006 6:15 PM |
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Speaking of break ups, here's an old, much lamented Irish band (Sunbear) with a new Mypace presence
Maintained by Martin from Ruby Taillights, who was the main Sunbear man. The tracks they've uploaded are old demos, and unreleased gems which I urge you to download.
http://www.myspace.com/sunbeardublin
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aidanAdvanced Member Posts:638
| 7/23/2006 4:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Walsh
PUGWASH (Me) will release "Jollity" on the 30th of October in England through Proper Distribution and then a European release will follow in early 2007 (France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Holland)
Are you planning to play here and around Europe, Thomas?
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| 7/24/2006 2:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by markyedison
most bands eventually die off because they can't or won't make those sacrifices/ choices. anyone in a band(or solo) who is not willing to put the band ahead of work/ family/ love etc. will never break.
true indeed,
you have to be willing to let it affect your career(job)/lovelife/social life. If a band are that good then they really should work their arses off for it. You can forgive a band for lacking the talent to push it up a gear but lacking commitment and effot when the talent is there leaves no excuse. |
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Thomas WalshNew Member Posts:48
| 7/24/2006 4:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by aidan
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Walsh
PUGWASH (Me) will release "Jollity" on the 30th of October in England through Proper Distribution and then a European release will follow in early 2007 (France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Holland)
Are you planning to play here and around Europe, Thomas?
Hi Aidan. We've actually played around 25 gigs since supporting Mundy around Ireland in November last year but as someone mentioned earlier it's VERY hard and expensive for a band like mine to support a tour every 6 months in Ireland.
We're definitely doing English gigs towards Christmas '06 so if you'd like to be kept in the loop Aidan you can keep an eye on things here http://www.myspace.com/pugwalsh
We're putting up a brand spanking new Pugwash site very soon, should be live in about 6-8 weeks.
Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit but thanks for asking (and caring) Aidan. 
Thomas. |
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| 7/24/2006 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by markyedison
this is the second post from marko in a few days to make this point and he is right.
any band that is unwilling to make that effort, to put in the time and , yes, the money themselves and promote their arses off, will not and should not be successful.
all bands that break thru, regardless of whether they are good or not, have done so because of the tremendous workload and sacrifices that they have made.
most bands eventually die off because they can't or won't make those sacrifices/ choices. anyone in a band(or solo) who is not willing to put the band ahead of work/ family/ love etc. will never break.
Surprisingly when you are an independent band in Dublin noone actually gives you money - you have to work for it to pay for:
rehearsal rooms (for rehearsing in three nights a week or more)
for petrol or taxis to get to gigs (whether it be whelans/Galway/Cork)
for flights to London/New York/Glasgow (where Ryanair will charge you an extra €30 per instrument EACH way (and that does include the snare drum - although they couldn't clarify if they would charge for a tin whistle or what instrument would be deemed small enough not to cost extra.)
for leads/pedals/adaptors and other music gear
for accomodation in other cities/food/underground tickets
for hiring a backline in New York or London (cos not every band wants to share or uses two guitar amps
for recording/mixing/mastering/hiring studio time/engineer
for inlay cards/printing/making physical cds
for postage and packaging (to anyone who has shown any bit of interest)
Oh and did I mention you don't actually get paid for any of these gigs you play whether they be in Dublin/London or New York no matter how much it cost you to get there. Unless you play the Roisin Dubh where Gugai actually is in it for the music.
But at the end of the day you still get up go to work (to make money so you can keep doing it all) and go straight to rehearsal and come home after 11 and feel good about making music.Or you fly out to a gig and do it, grab 3 hours sleep back to the airport and go straight from plane to work because you need your job so that the next time you get offered a good gig there's no monetary reason you can't go.
".yeah why tour when you can just stay in Ireland and hope to be a Hotpress darling and Whelans A-celeb!!?" Mattso
Somehow I think you underestimate how much hard work goes into being a little known band in Dublin. Touring isn't as simple as getting confirmed in a number of venues (and that's not even simple).
Anyway enough ranting. I'm sick of people slagging off Irish bands for not being hard working. Do you actually know any band who does play gigs and isn't hard working?
And the Thrills don't count - they didn't need the money - and are we really claiming them as our own?
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DromedAdvanced Member Posts:900
| 7/24/2006 2:21 PM |
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*Ahh illyad giv us a hug* you make a few fine points there
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| 7/24/2006 8:46 PM |
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Thanks. I feel better now.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 7/25/2006 9:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by illyad
quote:
Originally posted by markyedison
this is the second post from marko in a few days to make this point and he is right.
any band that is unwilling to make that effort, to put in the time and , yes, the money themselves and promote their arses off, will not and should not be successful.
all bands that break thru, regardless of whether they are good or not, have done so because of the tremendous workload and sacrifices that they have made.
most bands eventually die off because they can't or won't make those sacrifices/ choices. anyone in a band(or solo) who is not willing to put the band ahead of work/ family/ love etc. will never break.
Surprisingly when you are an independent band in Dublin noone actually gives you money - you have to work for it to pay for:
rehearsal rooms (for rehearsing in three nights a week or more)
for petrol or taxis to get to gigs (whether it be whelans/Galway/Cork)
for flights to London/New York/Glasgow (where Ryanair will charge you an extra €30 per instrument EACH way (and that does include the snare drum - although they couldn't clarify if they would charge for a tin whistle or what instrument would be deemed small enough not to cost extra.)
for leads/pedals/adaptors and other music gear
for accomodation in other cities/food/underground tickets
for hiring a backline in New York or London (cos not every band wants to share or uses two guitar amps
for recording/mixing/mastering/hiring studio time/engineer
for inlay cards/printing/making physical cds
for postage and packaging (to anyone who has shown any bit of interest)
Oh and did I mention you don't actually get paid for any of these gigs you play whether they be in Dublin/London or New York no matter how much it cost you to get there. Unless you play the Roisin Dubh where Gugai actually is in it for the music.
But at the end of the day you still get up go to work (to make money so you can keep doing it all) and go straight to rehearsal and come home after 11 and feel good about making music.Or you fly out to a gig and do it, grab 3 hours sleep back to the airport and go straight from plane to work because you need your job so that the next time you get offered a good gig there's no monetary reason you can't go.
".yeah why tour when you can just stay in Ireland and hope to be a Hotpress darling and Whelans A-celeb!!?" Mattso
Somehow I think you underestimate how much hard work goes into being a little known band in Dublin. Touring isn't as simple as getting confirmed in a number of venues (and that's not even simple).
Anyway enough ranting. I'm sick of people slagging off Irish bands for not being hard working. Do you actually know any band who does play gigs and isn't hard working?
And the Thrills don't count - they didn't need the money - and are we really claiming them as our own?
sorry but what are u on about? no-one is FORCING anyone to do all of the above. if u are in a band and u are serious about what u do and reaching a big audience, surely u WANT to put in all this work and much more besides? if u want an easy life, go work in a bank. if - and yes, i know its a big if - it pays off, the rewards are huge. its a gamble which is why thousands and thousands go for it. in 99 percent of the cases it doesnt work because the bands are not good enough or dont work hard enough or give out too much (see above). in one percent, it does work and thats what entices the other to chance their arm. |
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ishrinkBasic Member Posts:195
| 7/25/2006 10:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Pilchard
sorry but what are u on about? no-one is FORCING anyone to do all of the above. if u are in a band and u are serious about what u do and reaching a big audience, surely u WANT to put in all this work and much more besides?
Not to be presumptuous, but I think the point was that, contrary to MarkO's assertion, most bands DO want to tour, but lengthy tours aren't feasible for most amateur bands without financial backing.
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| 7/25/2006 11:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ishrink
quote:
Originally posted by Pilchard
sorry but what are u on about? no-one is FORCING anyone to do all of the above. if u are in a band and u are serious about what u do and reaching a big audience, surely u WANT to put in all this work and much more besides?
Not to be presumptuous, but I think the point was that, contrary to MarkO's assertion, most bands DO want to tour, but lengthy tours aren't feasible for most amateur bands without financial backing.
That's exactly what I was saying thanks.
And I love being in a band and don't see any of that stuff as work - it's a passion. Just wanted to point out that Marky and Marko or whoever were talking crap. |
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klootfanAdvanced Member Posts:851
| 7/25/2006 12:17 PM |
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Some good points illyad, but surely that reenforces the point that if you are going to put in all of this effort, your music had better be good enough in the first place... And again I ask, if the music is not original or commercial enough ( sometimes the music can be both ) ( assuming you are in it for the money ), then is there a point to going through the whole routine of touring, trying to release a CD, maybe getting signed and then getting dropped.
If you do it for the music, then thats a different think, maybe you enjoy all that crap, but if your in it to make a living then treat it like a business, and like all good business, you start with, ideally an service which is unique and therefore should attract interest, backed by a solid business plan.
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| 7/25/2006 12:24 PM |
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Most bands think their music is good, I presume. Or at least that the band has the potential to make good music.
I definately believe in my band.
(Actually I completely believe in both bands I'm in)
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klootfanAdvanced Member Posts:851
| 7/25/2006 12:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by illyad
Most bands think their music is good, I presume. Or at least that the band has the potential to make good music.
I definately believe in my band.
(Actually I completely believe in both bands I'm in)
I believe you do.. And I suppose its a hard one to call.. at what point does a band realise that their music is attracting the attention which could lead to success... Catch 22.. mabye |
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| 7/25/2006 12:45 PM |
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Yes, your right.
If I stop enjoying the music I'll stop being in the band. But then it's not all about the money for me. If the band is based on a business plan I suppose they might have a make it or break it time frame written into it.
In addition, there's a lot of luck in attracting attention I think. But we all know that.
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MullyAdvanced Member Posts:849
| 7/26/2006 12:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mattso
G-g-g-galway
Just a thought, with the inlusion of Online Downloads these days, Can you sit at home with your CreditCard & download your bands track, 200 times resulting in a No.1 for only €200 ? |
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 7/26/2006 1:00 PM |
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stop giving David Kitt ideas.
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 7/26/2006 2:00 PM |
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Some indie band in the UK tried to do this earlier in the year (they claim it was overenthusiastic friends and family members), got caught and were disqualified from the charts.
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
| 7/26/2006 2:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Unicron
Some indie band in the UK tried to do this earlier in the year (they calim it was over thusiastic friends and family members), got caught and were disqualified from the charts.
ahahaha
hate THAT! |
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PeterQuaifeBasic Member Posts:436
| 8/17/2006 3:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mick
quote:
Originally posted by bonzo
Another to add to the list would be Pilotlight (formerly Polar). They've been in London for ages and saw their homecoming gig this weekend. Average doesn't describe it.
bonzo,
firstly nice one for coming along on saturday, i know you've always taken an interest in our band and its much appreciated... apologies you didnt enjoy the gig. we tried a few new songs for the 1st time live and they didnt go exactly as planned and definitely broke up our set. we thought it was a good idea to air them here first to a receptive crowd who knew the set and would be interested in new material but in hindsight it probably wasnt the best idea as i think alot was expected of us as "the band who went to london to make it big" and we probably should have stuck to a set we were more comfortable with and had played in. hindsights a great thing though.
other than the few new tunes i dont think we'd a below average gig but different strokes for different folks.
on the whole 'slow death' of our band... personally i dont think one bad gig makes a bad band, especially at our level where things like a consistent sound engineer are beyond our financial means (this isnt supposed to be an excuse but more an insight into how outside factors can effect the consistency of a small band's live show), and at the moment things have been going very well for us... 95% of the people at the gig enjoyed it, we've been getting really great press and reviews both here and the uk and alot of people are interested in our band and our music, so i really dont see how a bad gig in one persons opinion equates to a 'slow death'.
anyway, again apologies you didnt enjoy the gig,
mick
dont apologise Mick..@ least your givin it a lash, fair fu$ks to you
PQ |
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dudleyBasic Member Posts:124
| 8/17/2006 4:35 PM |
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being in a band is poopy!
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oh messy lifeNew Member Posts:27
| 8/18/2006 1:22 PM |
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Why so, Dudley?
Are you in The Dudley Corporation?
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dudleyBasic Member Posts:124
| 9/18/2006 5:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by oh messy life
Why so, Dudley?
Are you in The Dudley Corporation?
ah yeah |
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nonemoreblackNew Member Posts:21
| 9/19/2006 3:57 PM |
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Having played in both the UK and Ireland a lot over the years I have to say it is a shame how many of the more talented Irish bands dont make it. We are very lucky to have so many good bands in what is a small country.
Go to see a local showcase in London, Manchester, Glasgow etc and you will see maybe one good band on the bill but the rest will be very average.
My point is there is some great music being made in this country so get out there and show your support.
Oh yeah and on the Pilotlight topic, I suggest anyone that rights off a band on the basis of one 'off' gig should consider giving the band a second chance. Bands do change from time to time and try out new ideas. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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dudleyBasic Member Posts:124
| 9/20/2006 2:40 AM |
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Kind of tangenital (woo, invented almost rude word!), but there are elements of being in a band in Ireland that are a bit suck.
I've not given a lot of thought to this as I'm too busy rolling up planets in Katamari Damacy, but having toured a fair bit of the US some things stand out. Bear with me as I rant this out, and they are two minor points (and it's not an attack on Irish bands, I think there are some incredible Irish bands at the minute!!)..
Firstly, American bands s**t all over Irish bands. Absolutely. Everytime. Technically...
It was something we noticed very quickly the first time we toured there, but every night, in every small town we fell into, the bands were always superb. Technically...
And the musicianship was phenomenal. And they always had superb gear. The most exquisite amps and vintage kits etc, and always in immaculate condition.
Tragically, these bands were almost always terrible, piddle poor songwriting.
We quickly figured out why there was such a startling difference in musicianship. Maybe, and patronisingly, we assumed that in these small towns there wasn't a whole lot for kids to do other than practice in their band rooms with their pals, but more likely we thought it boiled down to a very different attitute to putting on gigs and playing.
Bands in the US do *not* share backline. Ever.
My experience in Ireland of organising gigs usually revolves around "can you bring the bass amp?", "can band X supply a kit?".
It took us a long time to get used to people looking affronted and appalled every time we asked to borrow a guitar amp, or could we share a kit shell, but it just doesn't happen.
After a band plays, every item of backline is stripped from the stage and the next bands gear gets thrown up. You get used to seeing 2 or 3 drumkits ready assembled in a hallway, just waiting to be hauled on stage. We used to express our amazement to the local bands at how surely this must make changeovers take forever and how the sound must be screwed up for the night, engineers having to re-mic all the gear. Yet, without fail the sound would be amazing, changeover would take seconds, and in the smaller clubs there are rarely soundchecks. If it's your own gear, you know how you want it to sound, all a good engineer has to do is linecheck it (over here you have to waste time messing with someone elses settings blah)
Obviously gear is a *hell* of a lot cheaper over there, but surely most bands here have their own stuff?
Point is, when these US bands get onstage, it's like their game has already been raised. They have all their own gear, so there's no excuse for it not sounding how they want, if they sound crappy it's more likely cos they're playing bad. And they tend to play out of their skins. The actual songs may stink, but in their own way, these bands rock out.
It's an attitude that I can't really see taking off over here. We always, always bring our own backline to gigs over here now, despite the hassle, and it's even led to fights with notable sound engineers. "ah, use that amp there, it's already mic'd and eq'd for the room"
"no, that's not my amp. this is my amp. all you have to do is move a mic"
"....."
"i'll even move it for you"
"....."
And then you've got a sound man with an attitude for the rest of the night. (nb there are some amazing engineers in the country too, but these experiences are definitely more commonplace in Ireland than elsewhere, from our experience)
To me, it just seems like it's worth getting over the hassle of transporting gear, makes such a difference.
The other thing, and it's so much more the crucial factor, that we need are practice spaces.
The situation here is *horrible*.
What is it, something like 70 euro for a band to practice for 5 hours now? That's terrible. How much must that discourage people from playing. Practice rooms are usually when the most creative and fun things happen in bands, but if your time is at such a premium you're screwed.
All my pals in the US have amazing practice rooms. And none are in official rehearsal studios. It's such a common practice for landlords to let bands use empty space to practice in, for little money, maybe a couple of hundred dollars a months at the most outrageous. And it's your room, you can use it whenever and for as long as you want. Landlord gets to know that there are people using his building who will keep an eye on it's basic maintenance. My favourite even has a beer vending machine in it. The dream!
Greedy landlords here pretty much guarantee that that will never happen, but it is depressing. How many rooms are out there now in Dublin, laying dormant that could entertain some rocking? Billions!
Again, I do think there are some phenomenal people and bands over here, but the above points are definitely two hugely noticeable differences.
I haven't read over this so I expect my poor literaly skills will have insulted someone. If it did that's not what I meant! I'm full of s**t.
Back to Katamari I go.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 9/20/2006 9:04 AM |
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v good post dudley
i've always noted the technical excellence of visiting bands (particularly the US ones) and wondered why irish bands were never ever up to the same basic standard. it really does take someone in a band to point out such basic stuff as owning your own gear AND having access to cheap rehearsal spaces.
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| 9/20/2006 6:02 PM |
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I'd totally agree with Dudley on the "we don't share backline" stance of UK and US bands, however I like the way Irish bands are supportive of each other and share (especially as lots of people in bands don't have access to cars/trucks/vans and gig around Dublin/Cork the rest of the country).
We've also done a number of gigs in the US and UK and most bands we've played with at regular band nights are AWFUL - really and truly (even though some are way mor technically proficiant than I will ever be) - and I think this might be because they don't go out and listen to their peers/local bands - it's just a theory but most bands in Dublin go out and support other bands, share ideas, share good records - there is a bit of a community (I'm not talking about a cliche).
I've also found that they will not share amps/backline - even if you've just gotten off a flight from Dublin and have no way to bring amps/bass drum etc. I get Dudley's point about it being better to play with your own gear but it's not always possible. We've had loads of problems with gigs in London because of the sharing backline thing and we generally have to hire our backline. And that's even after you've phoned all the bands and asked nicely and they've said yes - the story sometimes changes when you turn up on the night ( with regular old twin cabs turning into "vintage" amps too precious to use). There's not a lot of trust or support accross the two oceans.
Also I have to say it's a joy to play gigs in Dublin/Ireland and work with professional sound engineers/bands/organisers who actually know what's going on. We don't know how lucky we are!!!
And there are some great venues/promoters around the country who are actually paying bands to travel and play!!! You guys know who you are, and thanks for that!
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dudleyBasic Member Posts:124
| 9/20/2006 7:29 PM |
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they shouldn't be expected to share backline though.
people reneging after previously agreeing to lend stuff isn't fair obviously, but expecting the right to borrow gear just cos you've travelled doesn't really work for me.
now that i've got a nice fancy valve amp, i've been dismayed at the general lack of respect other bands have shown it when borrowed. best example being a major gig in the UK where my amp exploded onstage after someone knocked over a bottle of beer they'd perched on it. cost me a fortune and a whole heap of heartbreak to get fixed, not to mention screweing up the gig. if i'd stuck to my guns and politely said i'd rather not share than it wouldn't have happened.
stupidly i still always yes when asked.
also, if you have to hire gear when you travel abroad, so be it. it's a lot cheaper to do it than in ireland, and i've yet to hear an overseas band complaining about renting needed equipment here. it's just part of what you have to do, no?
last US tour we did, i got an amazing traynor head for 5 weeks use for $200.
anthony from large mound insists it's only southsiders that borrow gear, ask for plectrums etc 8)
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 9/20/2006 7:58 PM |
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Here Dudley, is it that simple to get your own backline used at gigs here?
I've not gigged that much but I've always had a resounding "no chance!" from soundmen when I've politely asked if we could replace one of the amps up on stage for one of ours for our set which is frustrating as f**k seeing as we've invested a fair bit into buying decent amps (Fender Twin Reverb, Vox AC30, Ashdown bass combo, do need another good amp admittedly) and typically wind up having to use equipment that isn't as good because someone higher on the bill has inferior gear.
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dudleyBasic Member Posts:124
| 9/20/2006 9:07 PM |
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those are bad soundmen, say it to the production manager or venue owner.
it's *absurd* to not be allowed to use your own gear. be polite but insist.
fair enough if you are supporting a band with their own backline set up that they don't want to move, but just set up in front of it. s'what you normally do.
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